Saturday, December 8, 2007
"Arguments for God's Existence?" ~Voltaire
I have great respect for religion and the morality it can inspire, but I also do not accept things blindly. Do you have any well-reasoned arguments for the existence of God?
a. Anselm’s Ontological argument for the existence of God says that God must exist by His own definition. Anselm defines God as “that of which nothing greater can be conceived” and so would possess all the best qualities including true existence over being simply imagined.
b. Kant’s Transcendental argument says that “every fact of human experience and knowledge) are not meaningful apart from a preconditioning belief in the existence of the Christian God”. The clearest demonstration of this is found in morality. I have yet to see a satisfactory source for morality apart from a moral God.
c. Plato’s Cosmological argument follows this line of reasoning, “Every finite/contingent being has a cause + Nothing contingent can cause itself + A causal chain cannot be of infinite length = There must be a first cause (or necessary being).” Anselm would say it is greater to be a “necessary” being than a “contingent” one, so God must be a necessary being by definition. The infinite recurrence theory obviously takes issue with the 3rd statement and I believe the string theory takes issue with the 2nd.
d. Aquinas’s Teleological argument comes from Romans 1:20, which Paul says, “For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse”. This is the primary basis for the Intelligent Design movement, which follows an “inference to the best explanation” that an information rich system necessitates design. William Dembski’s Design Inference explains how science approaches the question of whether or not a thing was designed. He cites “improbability” and “specificity” as the two major variables. This is how they avoid the tendency to read design into something.
e. Lee Strobel wrote his book The Case for Christ based on the legal evidence that Jesus Christ existed, claimed to be God, and demonstrated His claims to be true. John 1:18 says that we can see God through His son Jesus. Believers and non-believers alike reported His miracles, He fulfilled almost 200 prophecies and was witnessed by over 500 people as risen from the dead, many of whom died rather than recant this testimony. Strobel puts it well when he says, “people may be willing to die for something they mistakenly believe to be true, but no one would die for something they know to be UNtrue.” For more on that, I suggest reading his book or at least viewing the website.
f. My theory of “Emotional Denial” is based partially on Paul, who states in Romans 1:18-19 “The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them.” I believe that all humans inherently know that God exists (somewhat similar to Jung’s archetypes). However, before this truth can truly reach our consciousness, it passes through our emotions (which battle between honesty, selfishness, etc). Jesus said that anyone who truly wants to find God will (Matthew 7:7). I believe that atheism and all false religions are a result of human reasoning seeking to find a way to deny God without feeling guilty. I am, however, open to criticism J
g. Though I think each of these has validity, I don’t believe that any of them truly change a person’s mind. The Bible says that it is only God who can truly change a heart, and it is personal experience of God’s presence in my life that convinces me more than anything. There’s a camp song that says “don’t try to tell me that God is dead, I spoke with Him this morning.” Though no one has seen God any more than they can see gravity or honesty, we can see how He affects things, and we can understand His qualities. I will gladly share more on this if you ask, but this email is long enough already.
You say “I have great respect for religion and the morality it can inspire”, and I appreciate that, but I want to point out that the helpfulness of religion is not the point, but only a side-effect. There was a time when the best defense for Christianity we could present to hard evolutionists was “the Bible makes promises that I have experienced to be fulfilled in my life.” However, these days the helpfulness of religion can be a major distraction from the central point of whether or not it is true. CS Lewis said that if Christianity is true, then we all need to follow it whether it is helpful or not, and if it is false then we need to know that as well and stop living a lie even if it’s a nice one. That being said, I can’t see a basis for morality apart from God, and I can’t see a purpose to life apart from the mission of God on this earth, but I’d cherish your perspective on this.
I hope you find this helpful, or at least somewhat coherent. I don’t claim to have all the answers, and I’m nowhere near as well read on these issues as some others, but I hope you have seen that I have not accepted this blindly. It’s a big deal to commit your life to something you can only believe to be true. Hebrews 11:1 calls faith “being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see”. Ultimately, I believe there will never be irrefutable proof either way while we are on this earth. Evidence can only get you to the point where it is reasonable. The Bible is God saying “I’ll catch you,” but we can’t be sure until we jump.
Please feel free to respond (positively or negatively) and if you need someone closer to the research or to the article you mentioned, I will try to connect you that way.
Your cojourner in the quest for truth,
Jeff Grant
a. Anselm’s Ontological argument for the existence of God says that God must exist by His own definition. Anselm defines God as “that of which nothing greater can be conceived” and so would possess all the best qualities including true existence over being simply imagined.
b. Kant’s Transcendental argument says that “every fact of human experience and knowledge) are not meaningful apart from a preconditioning belief in the existence of the Christian God”. The clearest demonstration of this is found in morality. I have yet to see a satisfactory source for morality apart from a moral God.
c. Plato’s Cosmological argument follows this line of reasoning, “Every finite/contingent being has a cause + Nothing contingent can cause itself + A causal chain cannot be of infinite length = There must be a first cause (or necessary being).” Anselm would say it is greater to be a “necessary” being than a “contingent” one, so God must be a necessary being by definition. The infinite recurrence theory obviously takes issue with the 3rd statement and I believe the string theory takes issue with the 2nd.
d. Aquinas’s Teleological argument comes from Romans 1:20, which Paul says, “For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse”. This is the primary basis for the Intelligent Design movement, which follows an “inference to the best explanation” that an information rich system necessitates design. William Dembski’s Design Inference explains how science approaches the question of whether or not a thing was designed. He cites “improbability” and “specificity” as the two major variables. This is how they avoid the tendency to read design into something.
e. Lee Strobel wrote his book The Case for Christ based on the legal evidence that Jesus Christ existed, claimed to be God, and demonstrated His claims to be true. John 1:18 says that we can see God through His son Jesus. Believers and non-believers alike reported His miracles, He fulfilled almost 200 prophecies and was witnessed by over 500 people as risen from the dead, many of whom died rather than recant this testimony. Strobel puts it well when he says, “people may be willing to die for something they mistakenly believe to be true, but no one would die for something they know to be UNtrue.” For more on that, I suggest reading his book or at least viewing the website.
f. My theory of “Emotional Denial” is based partially on Paul, who states in Romans 1:18-19 “The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them.” I believe that all humans inherently know that God exists (somewhat similar to Jung’s archetypes). However, before this truth can truly reach our consciousness, it passes through our emotions (which battle between honesty, selfishness, etc). Jesus said that anyone who truly wants to find God will (Matthew 7:7). I believe that atheism and all false religions are a result of human reasoning seeking to find a way to deny God without feeling guilty. I am, however, open to criticism J
g. Though I think each of these has validity, I don’t believe that any of them truly change a person’s mind. The Bible says that it is only God who can truly change a heart, and it is personal experience of God’s presence in my life that convinces me more than anything. There’s a camp song that says “don’t try to tell me that God is dead, I spoke with Him this morning.” Though no one has seen God any more than they can see gravity or honesty, we can see how He affects things, and we can understand His qualities. I will gladly share more on this if you ask, but this email is long enough already.
You say “I have great respect for religion and the morality it can inspire”, and I appreciate that, but I want to point out that the helpfulness of religion is not the point, but only a side-effect. There was a time when the best defense for Christianity we could present to hard evolutionists was “the Bible makes promises that I have experienced to be fulfilled in my life.” However, these days the helpfulness of religion can be a major distraction from the central point of whether or not it is true. CS Lewis said that if Christianity is true, then we all need to follow it whether it is helpful or not, and if it is false then we need to know that as well and stop living a lie even if it’s a nice one. That being said, I can’t see a basis for morality apart from God, and I can’t see a purpose to life apart from the mission of God on this earth, but I’d cherish your perspective on this.
I hope you find this helpful, or at least somewhat coherent. I don’t claim to have all the answers, and I’m nowhere near as well read on these issues as some others, but I hope you have seen that I have not accepted this blindly. It’s a big deal to commit your life to something you can only believe to be true. Hebrews 11:1 calls faith “being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see”. Ultimately, I believe there will never be irrefutable proof either way while we are on this earth. Evidence can only get you to the point where it is reasonable. The Bible is God saying “I’ll catch you,” but we can’t be sure until we jump.
Please feel free to respond (positively or negatively) and if you need someone closer to the research or to the article you mentioned, I will try to connect you that way.
Your cojourner in the quest for truth,
Jeff Grant
"Evolution vs. Design" ~Voltaire
In response to the EveryStudent essay,
The theory of evolution has been developed over the centuries and is currently supported by millions of examples both from artificial experiments and in the natural world. Analogizing the human eye to a bag of screws is ridiculous. You write that evolution proposes that "the human eye just came about from elements in the atmosphere". Evolution is not a random process that just takes a really long time. It is not at all like shaking a bag of screws in the hope of getting a watch. Evolution selects the best adaptations for an environment, gradually producing greater and greater complexity. The eye, for instance, did not just appear in a puff of smoke; rather, it originated as a small patch of photoreceptors in a primitive invertebrate, eventually developing an optic nerve, rods and cones, and so on. This process took billions of years and was completely non-random.
However, the larger argument--how the universe itself originated without the help of an intelligent designer--has not yet been resolved as intuitively as Darwin's. Scientists have come up with a number of possible solutions, from string theory to multiverse, but all are supported more by discrete mathematics than by intuition. The deepest questions, I find, rarely have easy answers. The problem with your deceptively easy solution is this: The universe may be miraculous and improbable--but whoever designed it must be even more miraculous and thus more improbable! Who designed the Designer? Religion is no solution to the paradox of infinite regress.
The theory of evolution is often oversimplified, but true or not it fails to replace theism as an explanation for the origin of life:
a. I agree that there are plenty of examples of MICRO-evolution (adaptation), but I am completely unconvinced by any evidence of MACRO or cross-species evolution that I've seen so far. If you have any such evidence, please direct me to it.
b. If natural selection breeds out the less helpful qualities, why do species that are many levels “less evolved” still exist?
c. Evolution cannot handle systems that irreducibly complex (“a single system… wherein the removal of any one of the parts causes the system to effectively cease functioning”). The eye may be a poor example of this, but there have been plenty of better ones (ex. Bacterial flagellum). In order for evolution to work, it must make tiny steps that can be common mutations, but even the eye requires huge leaps to get from a patch of photoreceptors to an optic nerve.
d. Even if macro-evolution could be proven, it fails to explain how life began or how circumstances could be lined up to allow life to begin. You do talk about solutions that they are developing (string theory to a multiverse) and I’d be very interested in hearing more about these along with the “discrete mathematics” that support them.
e. You state that “the deepest questions rarely have easy answers”, but the commonly accepted theory of Ockham’s Razor (“All things being equal, the simplest solution tends to be the right one”) leans against you there. I did not accept Christianity as true simply based on proof, but I have been continually convinced that the ad hoc responses from Atheists require more faith than an intelligent designer. I also disagree about the increased complexity of a designer. An infinite regress is unarguably more complicated and unimaginable than an unmoved mover. In these days of Quantum physics, we’re seeing how thought and immaterial truth has more grounding in reality than the physical world itself. These ideas reach popular expression in films like “The Matrix” that illustrate how our senses can no longer be trusted completely, sending us down the path of Descartes which lead to certainty of God’s existence as well.
The theory of evolution has been developed over the centuries and is currently supported by millions of examples both from artificial experiments and in the natural world. Analogizing the human eye to a bag of screws is ridiculous. You write that evolution proposes that "the human eye just came about from elements in the atmosphere". Evolution is not a random process that just takes a really long time. It is not at all like shaking a bag of screws in the hope of getting a watch. Evolution selects the best adaptations for an environment, gradually producing greater and greater complexity. The eye, for instance, did not just appear in a puff of smoke; rather, it originated as a small patch of photoreceptors in a primitive invertebrate, eventually developing an optic nerve, rods and cones, and so on. This process took billions of years and was completely non-random.
However, the larger argument--how the universe itself originated without the help of an intelligent designer--has not yet been resolved as intuitively as Darwin's. Scientists have come up with a number of possible solutions, from string theory to multiverse, but all are supported more by discrete mathematics than by intuition. The deepest questions, I find, rarely have easy answers. The problem with your deceptively easy solution is this: The universe may be miraculous and improbable--but whoever designed it must be even more miraculous and thus more improbable! Who designed the Designer? Religion is no solution to the paradox of infinite regress.
The theory of evolution is often oversimplified, but true or not it fails to replace theism as an explanation for the origin of life:
a. I agree that there are plenty of examples of MICRO-evolution (adaptation), but I am completely unconvinced by any evidence of MACRO or cross-species evolution that I've seen so far. If you have any such evidence, please direct me to it.
b. If natural selection breeds out the less helpful qualities, why do species that are many levels “less evolved” still exist?
c. Evolution cannot handle systems that irreducibly complex (“a single system… wherein the removal of any one of the parts causes the system to effectively cease functioning”). The eye may be a poor example of this, but there have been plenty of better ones (ex. Bacterial flagellum). In order for evolution to work, it must make tiny steps that can be common mutations, but even the eye requires huge leaps to get from a patch of photoreceptors to an optic nerve.
d. Even if macro-evolution could be proven, it fails to explain how life began or how circumstances could be lined up to allow life to begin. You do talk about solutions that they are developing (string theory to a multiverse) and I’d be very interested in hearing more about these along with the “discrete mathematics” that support them.
e. You state that “the deepest questions rarely have easy answers”, but the commonly accepted theory of Ockham’s Razor (“All things being equal, the simplest solution tends to be the right one”) leans against you there. I did not accept Christianity as true simply based on proof, but I have been continually convinced that the ad hoc responses from Atheists require more faith than an intelligent designer. I also disagree about the increased complexity of a designer. An infinite regress is unarguably more complicated and unimaginable than an unmoved mover. In these days of Quantum physics, we’re seeing how thought and immaterial truth has more grounding in reality than the physical world itself. These ideas reach popular expression in films like “The Matrix” that illustrate how our senses can no longer be trusted completely, sending us down the path of Descartes which lead to certainty of God’s existence as well.
"Do we see design where there is none?" ~Voltaire
Humans have a natural psychological tendency to see design in natural things. Our brain takes a short-cut: if we see a tiger, we don't waste time analyzing its neural impulses; we assume it's designed to eat us. Our ability to find patterns in the world is unparalleled; it's the reason why, in spite of the fact that I am small and weak and hairless, I can type this message to you at all. Unfortunately, it also leads us astray, making us find patterns in what may be a purely random universe.
You are certainly right that it can taint our objectivity, and that's a danger we all must seek to avoid. We must recognize also, however, that there are many such tendencies that can lead to error in the opposite direction. At the route of all humans is an undeniable source of pride and independence that says, “I’m in charge of my life.” Though it would take some time to cite them properly, I have read many atheist scientists as saying “I don’t believe that God exists because I’m afraid that He does.” Living in NJ, it is easy to see thousands of examples of how people always long to deny God simply so that they are not held accountable to a higher authority. In fact, all other religions offer ultimate control over your life to you. If you make it to the end of this email, I’ll explain more on that, but there’s no use denying that no one can be trusted with objectivity even in scientific research. We look to prove what we wish to be true (whether in the way we do research or the way we interpret results).
You are certainly right that it can taint our objectivity, and that's a danger we all must seek to avoid. We must recognize also, however, that there are many such tendencies that can lead to error in the opposite direction. At the route of all humans is an undeniable source of pride and independence that says, “I’m in charge of my life.” Though it would take some time to cite them properly, I have read many atheist scientists as saying “I don’t believe that God exists because I’m afraid that He does.” Living in NJ, it is easy to see thousands of examples of how people always long to deny God simply so that they are not held accountable to a higher authority. In fact, all other religions offer ultimate control over your life to you. If you make it to the end of this email, I’ll explain more on that, but there’s no use denying that no one can be trusted with objectivity even in scientific research. We look to prove what we wish to be true (whether in the way we do research or the way we interpret results).
"Christianity is good, but truth is subjective" ~John Doe
Hello John Doe,
Thanks so much for writing. I really enjoyed the message you wrote, and I love to talk about this subject. I've answered your statements in turn (your comments in blue), and I would dearly appreciate your feedback. I hope you find my responses entertaining, if not enlightening. I am certainly not qualified to answer for Christianity, God or the Bible as a whole, but think of me as someone making the same journey of discovery as you and just here to compare notes from the paths I've travelled with yours...
Every human being has a universal right to his or her own supernatural beliefs. I will not attempt to disprove your message, but instead give insight as to why it does not work for my own life.
That is very respectful, and I appreciate where you're coming from.
The human brain has an incredible need to structure and organize information coming from the world. The question "Is there really a god?" really boils down to "why are we here?" An uncountable number of beliefs and religions spawned from this very question. People need to answer this question for themselves, based on what is right for them.
While I agree that humanity likes to categorize and define, and I agree that we're all imprinted with a strong desire to find out "why we are here" and what purpose there is to life, I'd like you to clarify this idea of "what is right for them". What do you think makes an answer right for one person and not for another?
Once you believe something fully, in faith, it becomes truth, and it is truth. Truth is subjective to the individual. What is true for one person may not be true for another. God does exist; he will exist as long as people believe in him. People will find an answer to the eternal question if that is what he or she is set out to do. "You will seek me and find me; when you seek me with all your heart, I will be found by you." (Jeremiah 29: 13-14)
I'm afraid the statement "Truth is subjective to the individual" especially the implying "all truth" is impossible. Since the statement itself is one of truth, in order for it to be true, it would have to be subjective itself and not always true (click here for more info or visit www.rzim.com). In philosophy, this is known as a "self-defeating" statement. By it's own definition, it cannot be so.
Even moreso, if something is true to those who believe it, I believe that God is real and that those who reject Him are REALLY going to Hell (not because I or even God wants that to happen). If you are right, Christianity is true for those who believe it. But Christianity says that there is only one truth. In other words, if you are right then you are wrong. My grandfather claims to believe in relativism, and my mother asked him "so, you believe that I will go to Heaven when I die because that's what I believe, and that you will go to nothing because that's what you believe?" He admitted, "No, I don't think you'll go to heaven" thus admitting that he doesn't in fact ascribe to relativism or subjective truth. I pose the same question to you.
In my own life, I spent my childhood years in the church, and I still respect the institution for what it does. Community outreach programs are fantastic for the world. The saying "what goes around comes around" is true on a global scale. The world is like a messy bedroom. People throw dirty laundry everywhere and then wonder where the stench is coming from. As John Donne writes in 'For Whom the Bell Tolls' that "No man is an Island, entire of itself. Each is a piece of the continent, A part of the main." We're all stuck on this rock together, and our actions will undoubtedly affect other humans. The institution of the church understands better than any other.
I appreciate your respect for the church. Scripture tells us that God loves all people and in fact that God is Love. It even says that a Christian who fails to love his brother (anyone) is not actually a Christian (1 John 4:20). However, CS Lewis makes a good point that Christianity is not about being helpful primarily. He says "Christianity claims to give an account of facts - to tell you what the real universe is like… If Christianity is untrue, then no honest man will want to believe it, however helpful it mioght be: if it is true, every honest man will want to believe it, even if it gives him no help at all… Here is a door behind which, according to some people, the secret of the universe is waiting for you. Either that's true, or it isn't. And if it isn't, then what the door really conceals is simply the greatest fraud, the most colossal 'sell' on record. Isn't it obviously the job of every man (that is a man and not a rabbit) to try to find out which, and then to devote his full energies either to serving this tremendous secret or to exposing and destroying this gigantic humbug? Faced with such and issue, can you really remain wholly absorbed in your own blessed 'moral development'?"
Unfortunately, there are some beliefs that just do not work for me. One is that there is a single correct way of thinking, one way in and one way out.
I'd like to hear your opinions on why this doesn't work. For me, it makes sense that if someone created us, they would want us to know and have a relationship with him, not just come up with whatever we want and have nothing to do with him. The idea of "whatever you feel like is fine" only works if there in fact is no God at all. Besides, everything else in life works the same. You can't expect to keep a job if you break your employers rules no matter how hard your own beliefs differ. And, unlike in Bugs Bunny, the force of gravity doesn't cease to make you fall just because you don't believe in it.
My personal truths are different in some areas. To me, the conclusion cannot be drawn that because something is very complex, it means it had to be created by God. If medieval knights saw a commercial airline jet, they would attribute it in some way to a vehicle of a supernatural being.
That's true, complexity alone doesn't prove God's existence. It is, however, a strong piece of evidence. As you say, if knights saw an airplane, they'd think it was created by God and they'd be wrong (at least not directly). However, they would be correct to identify it as designed by someone. Complexity may not prove God Himself, but I believe it does necessitate a designer.
The Earth is a near perfect place for life to exist. What are the odds that out of billions of galaxies that just one star may have a planet, say, about 93million miles from the sun? Chances are there are a few.
It's true that chances are good that there are a few other planets with the right distance from a star, but that is only one of several dozen specific requirements that must be met in order for life to be possible. The chances of all of these being met in one planet are astronomically against. The number of galaxies in space doesn't come anywhere even close to providing the number of planets it would take to produce even one by chance (I don't have a source to quote off-hand, but if you're interested, I believe I can find it again).
On the subject of biology, I believe there are holes in both evolution and creation. Not enough is known about evolution to trace back to the very first living organism. In my personal belief, I believe neither is completely true, and without sufficient evidence, leave it at that.
I don't disagree with you about evolution and creation not having enough knowledge to prove either way. I believe there will never be enough evidence to produce 100% certainty, at least until judgment day. If there were, and God could be totally proven, then we'd have no choice but to believe in Him, no need for faith and no free will.
God pursues those who pursue him, and those who need him, will follow him.
Please elaborate on "those who need him, will follow him." Do you mean what Marx and Nietsche meant that people believe in God because they want there to be someone there taking care of them, or did you mean something else? I would respond to that, but I don't want to waste your time if that's not what you meant.
In conclusion, I believe that God is real for those who believe in him, and has had a greater impact on the world than any other ideal. True subjectivity means there is more than more answer to the question, and it varies for each person. In my own believe, since no conclusion can be drawn, I will leave it at that and take life as it comes.
So, you have not drawn a conclusion for yourself. But, just because you don't know what the answer is, does not mean there is no single answer. Does it not strike you that to "take life as it comes" is just to ignore an issue that you really don't have settled for yourself? I may be wrong in what I believe, but I am actively seeking the truth. I don't ever want to shut out possibilities without considering them, because I may find out after it's too late that there was something vitally true that I was too lazy to investigate.
One final question for you. If you believe that truth is relative, then you must also believe that morality is subjective. If that is true, how can you claim anything to be unfair or unjust? How can you say that the murder of innocent children or a stranger punching you in the nose is wrong?
Again, I hope this helps in some way, and I'd love to hear your response. I hope to hear from you soon, and continue this path of mutual discovery!
Your friend,
~Jeff
Thanks so much for writing. I really enjoyed the message you wrote, and I love to talk about this subject. I've answered your statements in turn (your comments in blue), and I would dearly appreciate your feedback. I hope you find my responses entertaining, if not enlightening. I am certainly not qualified to answer for Christianity, God or the Bible as a whole, but think of me as someone making the same journey of discovery as you and just here to compare notes from the paths I've travelled with yours...
Every human being has a universal right to his or her own supernatural beliefs. I will not attempt to disprove your message, but instead give insight as to why it does not work for my own life.
That is very respectful, and I appreciate where you're coming from.
The human brain has an incredible need to structure and organize information coming from the world. The question "Is there really a god?" really boils down to "why are we here?" An uncountable number of beliefs and religions spawned from this very question. People need to answer this question for themselves, based on what is right for them.
While I agree that humanity likes to categorize and define, and I agree that we're all imprinted with a strong desire to find out "why we are here" and what purpose there is to life, I'd like you to clarify this idea of "what is right for them". What do you think makes an answer right for one person and not for another?
Once you believe something fully, in faith, it becomes truth, and it is truth. Truth is subjective to the individual. What is true for one person may not be true for another. God does exist; he will exist as long as people believe in him. People will find an answer to the eternal question if that is what he or she is set out to do. "You will seek me and find me; when you seek me with all your heart, I will be found by you." (Jeremiah 29: 13-14)
I'm afraid the statement "Truth is subjective to the individual" especially the implying "all truth" is impossible. Since the statement itself is one of truth, in order for it to be true, it would have to be subjective itself and not always true (click here for more info or visit www.rzim.com). In philosophy, this is known as a "self-defeating" statement. By it's own definition, it cannot be so.
Even moreso, if something is true to those who believe it, I believe that God is real and that those who reject Him are REALLY going to Hell (not because I or even God wants that to happen). If you are right, Christianity is true for those who believe it. But Christianity says that there is only one truth. In other words, if you are right then you are wrong. My grandfather claims to believe in relativism, and my mother asked him "so, you believe that I will go to Heaven when I die because that's what I believe, and that you will go to nothing because that's what you believe?" He admitted, "No, I don't think you'll go to heaven" thus admitting that he doesn't in fact ascribe to relativism or subjective truth. I pose the same question to you.
In my own life, I spent my childhood years in the church, and I still respect the institution for what it does. Community outreach programs are fantastic for the world. The saying "what goes around comes around" is true on a global scale. The world is like a messy bedroom. People throw dirty laundry everywhere and then wonder where the stench is coming from. As John Donne writes in 'For Whom the Bell Tolls' that "No man is an Island, entire of itself. Each is a piece of the continent, A part of the main." We're all stuck on this rock together, and our actions will undoubtedly affect other humans. The institution of the church understands better than any other.
I appreciate your respect for the church. Scripture tells us that God loves all people and in fact that God is Love. It even says that a Christian who fails to love his brother (anyone) is not actually a Christian (1 John 4:20). However, CS Lewis makes a good point that Christianity is not about being helpful primarily. He says "Christianity claims to give an account of facts - to tell you what the real universe is like… If Christianity is untrue, then no honest man will want to believe it, however helpful it mioght be: if it is true, every honest man will want to believe it, even if it gives him no help at all… Here is a door behind which, according to some people, the secret of the universe is waiting for you. Either that's true, or it isn't. And if it isn't, then what the door really conceals is simply the greatest fraud, the most colossal 'sell' on record. Isn't it obviously the job of every man (that is a man and not a rabbit) to try to find out which, and then to devote his full energies either to serving this tremendous secret or to exposing and destroying this gigantic humbug? Faced with such and issue, can you really remain wholly absorbed in your own blessed 'moral development'?"
Unfortunately, there are some beliefs that just do not work for me. One is that there is a single correct way of thinking, one way in and one way out.
I'd like to hear your opinions on why this doesn't work. For me, it makes sense that if someone created us, they would want us to know and have a relationship with him, not just come up with whatever we want and have nothing to do with him. The idea of "whatever you feel like is fine" only works if there in fact is no God at all. Besides, everything else in life works the same. You can't expect to keep a job if you break your employers rules no matter how hard your own beliefs differ. And, unlike in Bugs Bunny, the force of gravity doesn't cease to make you fall just because you don't believe in it.
My personal truths are different in some areas. To me, the conclusion cannot be drawn that because something is very complex, it means it had to be created by God. If medieval knights saw a commercial airline jet, they would attribute it in some way to a vehicle of a supernatural being.
That's true, complexity alone doesn't prove God's existence. It is, however, a strong piece of evidence. As you say, if knights saw an airplane, they'd think it was created by God and they'd be wrong (at least not directly). However, they would be correct to identify it as designed by someone. Complexity may not prove God Himself, but I believe it does necessitate a designer.
The Earth is a near perfect place for life to exist. What are the odds that out of billions of galaxies that just one star may have a planet, say, about 93million miles from the sun? Chances are there are a few.
It's true that chances are good that there are a few other planets with the right distance from a star, but that is only one of several dozen specific requirements that must be met in order for life to be possible. The chances of all of these being met in one planet are astronomically against. The number of galaxies in space doesn't come anywhere even close to providing the number of planets it would take to produce even one by chance (I don't have a source to quote off-hand, but if you're interested, I believe I can find it again).
On the subject of biology, I believe there are holes in both evolution and creation. Not enough is known about evolution to trace back to the very first living organism. In my personal belief, I believe neither is completely true, and without sufficient evidence, leave it at that.
I don't disagree with you about evolution and creation not having enough knowledge to prove either way. I believe there will never be enough evidence to produce 100% certainty, at least until judgment day. If there were, and God could be totally proven, then we'd have no choice but to believe in Him, no need for faith and no free will.
God pursues those who pursue him, and those who need him, will follow him.
Please elaborate on "those who need him, will follow him." Do you mean what Marx and Nietsche meant that people believe in God because they want there to be someone there taking care of them, or did you mean something else? I would respond to that, but I don't want to waste your time if that's not what you meant.
In conclusion, I believe that God is real for those who believe in him, and has had a greater impact on the world than any other ideal. True subjectivity means there is more than more answer to the question, and it varies for each person. In my own believe, since no conclusion can be drawn, I will leave it at that and take life as it comes.
So, you have not drawn a conclusion for yourself. But, just because you don't know what the answer is, does not mean there is no single answer. Does it not strike you that to "take life as it comes" is just to ignore an issue that you really don't have settled for yourself? I may be wrong in what I believe, but I am actively seeking the truth. I don't ever want to shut out possibilities without considering them, because I may find out after it's too late that there was something vitally true that I was too lazy to investigate.
One final question for you. If you believe that truth is relative, then you must also believe that morality is subjective. If that is true, how can you claim anything to be unfair or unjust? How can you say that the murder of innocent children or a stranger punching you in the nose is wrong?
Again, I hope this helps in some way, and I'd love to hear your response. I hope to hear from you soon, and continue this path of mutual discovery!
Your friend,
~Jeff
"Paul wasn't an Apostle of Jesus. He was an enemy" ~Mumuni
You are right that as Saul, he was not an apostle, but an enemy of Christ and His followers. However, in Acts 22, Paul gives the testimony of how he went from enemy to apostle because of God's divine intervention. Since that time, Paul signed his letters "Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God" (Ephesians 1:1) and Peter himself (the disciple Jesus entitled "the rock on which I will build my church") says to listen to Paul who was given wisdom by God and equates Pauls writings with the rest of God-breathed scripture (2 Peter 3:15-17). Paul as well as all of the disciples and many others died painful deaths because the believed Jesus was and is God. Though some people may be willing to die for what they believe to be true and may be mistaken, no one would die for what they know to be false and made up themselves.
I hope this helps. Please feel free to give me feedback or ask any other questions. If any of this has had an impact on your view of God or Jesus, please read this article with an open heart and let me know if there's anything more I can do to help you.
I hope this helps. Please feel free to give me feedback or ask any other questions. If any of this has had an impact on your view of God or Jesus, please read this article with an open heart and let me know if there's anything more I can do to help you.
"Was Jesus God?" ~Mumuni
Was Jesus God or god?
The Christian claim is that Jesus is God (not just a god), an equal part of the trinity (Father, Son and Spirit).
Then who ruled the world while Jesus was in the womb?
The trinity is a tricky concept. So tricky, in fact, that it is beyond human reason to fully understand while bound to mortality and rooted in time (eternity is similarly beyond us to fully grasp). However, the best I have been able to explain it is to say that the Father, Son and Spirit are three distinct beings but one God at the same time. Some scriptures that depict this concept are:
Genesis 1:26 where God says "let US make man in OUR image" using plural words for describing Himself, but a singular word for "image".
Mark 1:9-11 where all three members of the trinity are present in separate forms.
The term "trinity" is not found in the Bible explicitly, the term was coined in one of the first church councels in the 1st or 2nd century BC, but is clearly demonstrated in Jesus' command to baptize people in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit (Matthew 28:19). It was recognized as complete blasphemy to baptize someone in the name of anyone but God.
Where did Jesus claim to be God?
Jesus never says the phrase "I am God" in the scriptures to my knowledge, but he does very clearly claim to be God on several occassions. My favorite is Mark 2:5-12, where he forgives the paralytic of his sins and is accused of blasphemy because "who can forgive sins but God alone?" Jesus then demonstrates his Godly authority by healing the man. In John 5:18, people are ready to kill Jesus because he was "making himself equal to God."
For more on this, check out this this article.
Where did Jesus say "worship me"?
Jesus never told people to worship him. In fact, He said not to glorify Him, but to give all glory to the Father who sent Him. It is likewise inappropriate to pray to or worship the Holy Spirit. The point is that each aspect of God has a different purpose:
God the Father created us and receives our prayers and all glory
God the Son showed us how to live and died to redeem our relationship with the Father by paying the price for sin
God the Spirit lives inside us, giving us understanding of the scriptures, convicting us of sin, and urging us to become more like Jesus
"Where Adam and Eve the 1st Humans on Earth?" ~Johnnie
Hello Johnnie,
The short answer is: "Yes!" Genesis 2 is an account of God creating the earth and Adam and Eve. Tell me though, why do you ask? If you have doubts that God could create the world from two people, or other aspects of the beginning of humanity, I can go into further detail. I just don't want to give you a speech without knowing what question you really are asking.
I hope this helps. Please feel free to give me feedback or ask any other questions. If this has had an impact on your view of God or Jesus, please read this article with an open heart and let me know if there's anything more I can do to help you.
Take care, and may God bless your life, that you may be a blessing to others!
The short answer is: "Yes!" Genesis 2 is an account of God creating the earth and Adam and Eve. Tell me though, why do you ask? If you have doubts that God could create the world from two people, or other aspects of the beginning of humanity, I can go into further detail. I just don't want to give you a speech without knowing what question you really are asking.
I hope this helps. Please feel free to give me feedback or ask any other questions. If this has had an impact on your view of God or Jesus, please read this article with an open heart and let me know if there's anything more I can do to help you.
Take care, and may God bless your life, that you may be a blessing to others!
"Who was Cain's wife?" ~Ralph
If there were only 4 people on earth, who was Cain's wife?
This is an intriguing question, but certainly not a barrier to faith in God.
There's a really neat article on this if you follow the link below, but the short answer is that Cain would have married another of Adam's descendants. according to Genesis 5:4, Adam lived at least 930 years and had other sons and daughters. Some historians say that he had as many as 56 kids. If you consider 14-20 years per generation (since women became mothers very early until recent years) the number of possible descendents Adam would have had in his own lifetime would be staggering. The Bible doesn't say when Cain killed Able, or how many children Adam had at the time. We don't even know whether Able was the second born, though he was probably the second son at least.
It seems to me that this issue is not the source of your doubts, but just fuel to the fire. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like your true struggle is with the goodness of God. We cannot fully understand God, but we do get some pretty good clues as to why God allows us to suffer on earth. Check out this Everystudent article and a follow-up conversation I had with someone.
For further evidence of God's existence, surf the EveryStudent website, particularly the articles at this page this page.
I hope this helps. Please feel free to give me feedback or ask any other questions. If any of this has had an impact on your view of God or Jesus, please read this article with an open heart and let me know if there's anything more I can do to help you.
This is an intriguing question, but certainly not a barrier to faith in God.
There's a really neat article on this if you follow the link below, but the short answer is that Cain would have married another of Adam's descendants. according to Genesis 5:4, Adam lived at least 930 years and had other sons and daughters. Some historians say that he had as many as 56 kids. If you consider 14-20 years per generation (since women became mothers very early until recent years) the number of possible descendents Adam would have had in his own lifetime would be staggering. The Bible doesn't say when Cain killed Able, or how many children Adam had at the time. We don't even know whether Able was the second born, though he was probably the second son at least.
It seems to me that this issue is not the source of your doubts, but just fuel to the fire. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like your true struggle is with the goodness of God. We cannot fully understand God, but we do get some pretty good clues as to why God allows us to suffer on earth. Check out this Everystudent article and a follow-up conversation I had with someone.
For further evidence of God's existence, surf the EveryStudent website, particularly the articles at this page this page.
I hope this helps. Please feel free to give me feedback or ask any other questions. If any of this has had an impact on your view of God or Jesus, please read this article with an open heart and let me know if there's anything more I can do to help you.
"Why won't God give me what I ask?" ~Ralph
Doubting God
First, let me say that questioning the existence of God and the validity of the Bible is not shameful. Many Christians feel like they need to hide their feelings of doubt, because it means they're not being faithful to God, not being "good Christians" and that they'll be judged by their churchmates. Well, they may be judged, because Christians are sinful and silly sometimes, but doubt doesn't make you a rebel against God, I think He encourages us to investigate, question and struggle with the mysteries He's lain before us (Philippians 2:12). If God is the God of truth, then your search for truth will lead you to Him more strongly than ever in the end. I pasted links to some great articles about proof of God near the bottom of this email.
Why don't I get what I prayed for?
I have often thought about this confusing situation myself. It seems in one instance, that God promises to do whatever we ask Him (Matthew 17:20), but in others God clearly denies people their requests (2 Samuel 12:16-18, 2 Corinthians 12:7-9). I think a verse that helps clear this up is John 15:16. At first, it just looks like another example of Matthew 17:20, but there's a key detail Jesus explains here. He says "the Father will give you whatever you ask in my name." A commentary I read said that "This is equivalent to saying on my account, or for my sake." Name in Bible culture means the entirety of who a person is, and includes their will and mission. Some translations say "whatever you ask in my will" which doesn't get the whole meaning, but is more helpful for this concept. In other words, when our hearts are truly aligned with God, we will ask for the things God wants to give us. It is a common error that praying to God is like writing a letter to Santa, and that He's there to give us everything we want. Though He does love us and wants to give us the desires of our hearts, it is we that were created for Him. Think of it more like approaching your king with a humble request. Though He's also your Father, He is still the King, and He must make the final decisions about what is right for us to have.
Why would God give me a stone, when I ask for bread? (Matthew 7:9)
This sounds more like a doubt about the character of God than of the existence of God. Still, you're not alone in your struggle! In fact, CS Lewis (the author of The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe) said that he disbelieved God for years because of the unfairness of life. In his books Mere Christianity and Surprised by Joy he explains that he came to realize that he couldn't call anything fair or unfair or even good or bad if God didn't exist.
You can also try googling "when God says no" and turn up a bunch of interesting resourcs. There's a great "Nooma" video on this subject called "Kickball". The basic point of this is that, like we know what's best for our children more than they do, God knows best what's best for us, and for the whole world. In addition to being way smarter than we are, God can see the big picture of everyone else's lives (how they intertwine) and all of history (how one event will lead to another). I don't know why God has chosen to say "no" or "not yet" to your request, I don't even know what your request is, but I know it's not because He doesn't love you (more likely it's because He does). Let me explain, or rather let CS Lewis explain...
I've often struggled with why God sometimes feels so absent in my life. Sometimes I can feel Him so clearly at work, and other times, no matter how hard I pray, I just feel like I'm talking to myself. I've wondered if it was my fault, if some sin or idol was getting in the way, and sometimes I think that is true. Other times, though, it seems like I'm really giving my best and getting nothing back. Oddly enough, I found some real encouragement from the words of a demon :). CS Lewis wrote a book called The Screwtape Letters which are from the perspective of one demon to another on how to best keep people away from God. In one letter, he talks about how people's spiritual feelings have ups and downs, and explains:
"He [God] will set them [people] off with communications of His presence which, though faint, seem great to them, with emotional sweetness, and easy conquest over temptation. But He never allows this state of affairs to last long. Sooner or later He withdraws, if not in fact, at least from their conscious experience, all those supports and incentives. He leaves the creature [person] to stand up on its own legs—to carry out from the will alone duties which have lost all relish. It is during such trough periods, much more than during the peak periods, that it [the person] is growing into the sort of creature He wants it to be. Hence the prayers offered in the state of dryness are those which please Him best... He cannot "tempt" to virtue as we [demons] do to vice. He wants them to learn to walk and must therefore take away His hand; and if only the will to walk is really there He is pleased even with their stumbles... Our cause [Satan's cause] is never more in danger, than when a human, no longer desiring, but intending, to do our Enemy's will, looks round upon a universe from which every trace of Him seems to have vanished, and asks why he has been forsaken, and still obeys."
First, let me say that questioning the existence of God and the validity of the Bible is not shameful. Many Christians feel like they need to hide their feelings of doubt, because it means they're not being faithful to God, not being "good Christians" and that they'll be judged by their churchmates. Well, they may be judged, because Christians are sinful and silly sometimes, but doubt doesn't make you a rebel against God, I think He encourages us to investigate, question and struggle with the mysteries He's lain before us (Philippians 2:12). If God is the God of truth, then your search for truth will lead you to Him more strongly than ever in the end. I pasted links to some great articles about proof of God near the bottom of this email.
Why don't I get what I prayed for?
I have often thought about this confusing situation myself. It seems in one instance, that God promises to do whatever we ask Him (Matthew 17:20), but in others God clearly denies people their requests (2 Samuel 12:16-18, 2 Corinthians 12:7-9). I think a verse that helps clear this up is John 15:16. At first, it just looks like another example of Matthew 17:20, but there's a key detail Jesus explains here. He says "the Father will give you whatever you ask in my name." A commentary I read said that "This is equivalent to saying on my account, or for my sake." Name in Bible culture means the entirety of who a person is, and includes their will and mission. Some translations say "whatever you ask in my will" which doesn't get the whole meaning, but is more helpful for this concept. In other words, when our hearts are truly aligned with God, we will ask for the things God wants to give us. It is a common error that praying to God is like writing a letter to Santa, and that He's there to give us everything we want. Though He does love us and wants to give us the desires of our hearts, it is we that were created for Him. Think of it more like approaching your king with a humble request. Though He's also your Father, He is still the King, and He must make the final decisions about what is right for us to have.
Why would God give me a stone, when I ask for bread? (Matthew 7:9)
This sounds more like a doubt about the character of God than of the existence of God. Still, you're not alone in your struggle! In fact, CS Lewis (the author of The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe) said that he disbelieved God for years because of the unfairness of life. In his books Mere Christianity and Surprised by Joy he explains that he came to realize that he couldn't call anything fair or unfair or even good or bad if God didn't exist.
You can also try googling "when God says no" and turn up a bunch of interesting resourcs. There's a great "Nooma" video on this subject called "Kickball". The basic point of this is that, like we know what's best for our children more than they do, God knows best what's best for us, and for the whole world. In addition to being way smarter than we are, God can see the big picture of everyone else's lives (how they intertwine) and all of history (how one event will lead to another). I don't know why God has chosen to say "no" or "not yet" to your request, I don't even know what your request is, but I know it's not because He doesn't love you (more likely it's because He does). Let me explain, or rather let CS Lewis explain...
I've often struggled with why God sometimes feels so absent in my life. Sometimes I can feel Him so clearly at work, and other times, no matter how hard I pray, I just feel like I'm talking to myself. I've wondered if it was my fault, if some sin or idol was getting in the way, and sometimes I think that is true. Other times, though, it seems like I'm really giving my best and getting nothing back. Oddly enough, I found some real encouragement from the words of a demon :). CS Lewis wrote a book called The Screwtape Letters which are from the perspective of one demon to another on how to best keep people away from God. In one letter, he talks about how people's spiritual feelings have ups and downs, and explains:
"He [God] will set them [people] off with communications of His presence which, though faint, seem great to them, with emotional sweetness, and easy conquest over temptation. But He never allows this state of affairs to last long. Sooner or later He withdraws, if not in fact, at least from their conscious experience, all those supports and incentives. He leaves the creature [person] to stand up on its own legs—to carry out from the will alone duties which have lost all relish. It is during such trough periods, much more than during the peak periods, that it [the person] is growing into the sort of creature He wants it to be. Hence the prayers offered in the state of dryness are those which please Him best... He cannot "tempt" to virtue as we [demons] do to vice. He wants them to learn to walk and must therefore take away His hand; and if only the will to walk is really there He is pleased even with their stumbles... Our cause [Satan's cause] is never more in danger, than when a human, no longer desiring, but intending, to do our Enemy's will, looks round upon a universe from which every trace of Him seems to have vanished, and asks why he has been forsaken, and still obeys."
"Why does God allow evil rulers?" ~R
Hello R,
Thanks again for writing! You ask some very important questions, and I can see that you're in a lot of pain. I can understand your frustrations, and I share them quite a bit. I don't claim to have a 100% answer for you, as I am on this journey of discovery as much as you are, but I'll share what I have seen through my journey, and I hope it helps you. At the same time, I am praying that God reveal Himself to you and bring understanding, or at least comfort through this difficult and painful life. I can tell you that the primary way to persevere through this life is to seek the Creator of all life, discover who He is and what He is like, and to strive to come alongside His grand mission for this world.
Does God have no control over Governments? Why does God allow evil people to get authority?
To answer this first question, yes He does have control. Daniel 2:21 actually says that God has the power to set up kings and despose of them. This 2nd question is much tougher. We cannot completely understand why God takes specific actions, because He is so far beyond us (Isaiah 55:9). It's like trying to know what a puzzle looks like, when you're just one of the pieces. What we do know is that God is good and that He loves us (1 John 4:8). He is willing to allow us to suffer for a time, though, if it means accomplishing something greater.
Common man has to suffer for leaders' mistakes.
There's a great EveryStudent article on Why Do Bad Things Happen. The short of it is: if God took away our ability to do evil in this world, we wouldn't have free will. This doesn't explain natural disasters (there are many very good reasons why God allows temporary suffering to achieve eternal good), but human-incurred evil is a necessary result of free will. If you want to know more about those other ideas about God allowing evil, check out my message to another EveryStudent question: problem of evil.
Why do the wicked flurish, and not the righteous? Will God punish them?
King David struggled through the same feelings throughout the Psalms and Lamentations. Psalm 10 is a great example of this. This passage answers your second question, with David's absolute confidence that God will make things right. Much of the book of Revelation also shows God bringing justice and setting things right. One answer to your first question is that the Devil is Prince of this sinful world (John 14:29-31). Don't worry, though, the devil will not remain in control forever (John 16:11), nor will evil men (Isaiah 24:21).
The question remains, "why doesn't God just kill all evil people?" I believe the answer is found in Matthew 13:24-29; 36-43. Jesus compares evil men to weeds and those who follow Him as wheat, saying they are sown together. The key is verse 29, where God tells the angels not to destroy the weeds for fear of damaging the good plants. God is waiting until all are grown and have had a chance to repent and follow Him. The explanation in 36-43 is another assurance that justice will come to the evil and the righteous when the time is right.
I do not like my life and this bad world, because God has not given me any power or authority, but has given it to the wrong people.
I'm sorry that you are unhappy, my friend! I'm afraid you will always be unhappy if you rely on your worldly circumstances for that happiness. Trust me, I went through all that (see my story for details). True and lasting Joy comes from a right relationship with the one who made us and fulfilling the purpose for which He created us (John 17:4). Phillipians 3:19-21 also explains that we weren't really made for this world, so we shouldn't and probably won't feel at home here.
You have more power than you think, though. Political authority is actually very limited. You have the power to affect the lives of those around you for good or ill. That's incredible power! This is why I chose to work for Campus Crusade for Christ. God has placed me in position to help change the hearts of thousands of college students (many of whom will go on to be major influencers in world government, media, etc). Rather than despairing with the lot God's given you, concentrate on using what He's given (contacts, job, location, resources, time) to do the most good you can. Remember the words of the serenity prayer.
So can you do something for me so that what I want will start to happen?
The point is not for what WE want to happen, but to help fulfill God's mission and plan, that is way bigger than our desires and even our lives. We look for immediate and temporary satisfaction, but God is aiming for eternal goodness and purity. Since we can't even achieve either of these in ourselves apart from Him, we need to trust God to lead us and instruct us in how to bring about His kingdom, and not get hung up on our limited expectations (Proverbs 3:5).
Our job as Christians is to show the world the truth and light by example... to reflect and radiate the love and presence of God, that people may see us and praise God, falling in love and obedience with the Creator of the Universe who also wants to be our Father. To do this, we are not to rebel and topple authorities, as the Jews hoped Jesus would come to do, but to submit to those authorities, knowing that God placed them there during this time (even if we don't understand why) Romans 13:1. Life on this sinful earth is not fair (that's our fault), but this life is a VERY short training ground compared to eternity.
The Bible actually says to pray for those in authority (1 Timothy 2:1-3). We are not fit to judge any other man's heart. When God moves in a person's life, even the worst person can become a mighty servant of the Almighty and All-Loving God.
I hope this helps. Please feel free to give me feedback or ask any other questions.
If any of this has had an impact on your view of God or Jesus, please read this article with an open heart and let me know if there's anything more I can do to help you.
Take care, and may God bless your life, that you may be a blessing to others!
Jeff Grant
God Questions
Original Message
My Greetings to you!
In this world their are people who are corrupt or are enemy of freedom. They want to take or curb individual's personal freedom.
Well I do not understand why God permits such peopleto come into power. Because such people when they get authoritythey misuse their powers. They do not do what they should doinstead they do wrong things. Such person come to serve their own selfish interests or they try to curb the freedom which common man like me enjoy all in the name of morality, values or traditions. They basically do things which is "right" according to them which is usually based upon their upbringing although a significant part of population does not agrees to it at all.They have their own prejudices which are wrong.
Who are these to take away the freedom and decide for a billion people?
So God has no influence, control over such such Governments and Government personnels? Has God left them on their free will?They do wrong thing but common man has to suffer for it.
I wish God to immediately kill them or make them severely sick so they will be forced to step down. God must punish such people. Will God do this?
Instead such people are prospering. God did not save my father but has given them a very long life.
Infact this is also one of the reason I do not like my life and thisbad world. God has not given me any power or authority. But has given itto wrong people.
I have just disapporoved this God created world.
So can you do something for me so that what I want will start to happen?
~R
Thanks again for writing! You ask some very important questions, and I can see that you're in a lot of pain. I can understand your frustrations, and I share them quite a bit. I don't claim to have a 100% answer for you, as I am on this journey of discovery as much as you are, but I'll share what I have seen through my journey, and I hope it helps you. At the same time, I am praying that God reveal Himself to you and bring understanding, or at least comfort through this difficult and painful life. I can tell you that the primary way to persevere through this life is to seek the Creator of all life, discover who He is and what He is like, and to strive to come alongside His grand mission for this world.
Does God have no control over Governments? Why does God allow evil people to get authority?
To answer this first question, yes He does have control. Daniel 2:21 actually says that God has the power to set up kings and despose of them. This 2nd question is much tougher. We cannot completely understand why God takes specific actions, because He is so far beyond us (Isaiah 55:9). It's like trying to know what a puzzle looks like, when you're just one of the pieces. What we do know is that God is good and that He loves us (1 John 4:8). He is willing to allow us to suffer for a time, though, if it means accomplishing something greater.
Common man has to suffer for leaders' mistakes.
There's a great EveryStudent article on Why Do Bad Things Happen. The short of it is: if God took away our ability to do evil in this world, we wouldn't have free will. This doesn't explain natural disasters (there are many very good reasons why God allows temporary suffering to achieve eternal good), but human-incurred evil is a necessary result of free will. If you want to know more about those other ideas about God allowing evil, check out my message to another EveryStudent question: problem of evil.
Why do the wicked flurish, and not the righteous? Will God punish them?
King David struggled through the same feelings throughout the Psalms and Lamentations. Psalm 10 is a great example of this. This passage answers your second question, with David's absolute confidence that God will make things right. Much of the book of Revelation also shows God bringing justice and setting things right. One answer to your first question is that the Devil is Prince of this sinful world (John 14:29-31). Don't worry, though, the devil will not remain in control forever (John 16:11), nor will evil men (Isaiah 24:21).
The question remains, "why doesn't God just kill all evil people?" I believe the answer is found in Matthew 13:24-29; 36-43. Jesus compares evil men to weeds and those who follow Him as wheat, saying they are sown together. The key is verse 29, where God tells the angels not to destroy the weeds for fear of damaging the good plants. God is waiting until all are grown and have had a chance to repent and follow Him. The explanation in 36-43 is another assurance that justice will come to the evil and the righteous when the time is right.
I do not like my life and this bad world, because God has not given me any power or authority, but has given it to the wrong people.
I'm sorry that you are unhappy, my friend! I'm afraid you will always be unhappy if you rely on your worldly circumstances for that happiness. Trust me, I went through all that (see my story for details). True and lasting Joy comes from a right relationship with the one who made us and fulfilling the purpose for which He created us (John 17:4). Phillipians 3:19-21 also explains that we weren't really made for this world, so we shouldn't and probably won't feel at home here.
You have more power than you think, though. Political authority is actually very limited. You have the power to affect the lives of those around you for good or ill. That's incredible power! This is why I chose to work for Campus Crusade for Christ. God has placed me in position to help change the hearts of thousands of college students (many of whom will go on to be major influencers in world government, media, etc). Rather than despairing with the lot God's given you, concentrate on using what He's given (contacts, job, location, resources, time) to do the most good you can. Remember the words of the serenity prayer.
So can you do something for me so that what I want will start to happen?
The point is not for what WE want to happen, but to help fulfill God's mission and plan, that is way bigger than our desires and even our lives. We look for immediate and temporary satisfaction, but God is aiming for eternal goodness and purity. Since we can't even achieve either of these in ourselves apart from Him, we need to trust God to lead us and instruct us in how to bring about His kingdom, and not get hung up on our limited expectations (Proverbs 3:5).
Our job as Christians is to show the world the truth and light by example... to reflect and radiate the love and presence of God, that people may see us and praise God, falling in love and obedience with the Creator of the Universe who also wants to be our Father. To do this, we are not to rebel and topple authorities, as the Jews hoped Jesus would come to do, but to submit to those authorities, knowing that God placed them there during this time (even if we don't understand why) Romans 13:1. Life on this sinful earth is not fair (that's our fault), but this life is a VERY short training ground compared to eternity.
The Bible actually says to pray for those in authority (1 Timothy 2:1-3). We are not fit to judge any other man's heart. When God moves in a person's life, even the worst person can become a mighty servant of the Almighty and All-Loving God.
I hope this helps. Please feel free to give me feedback or ask any other questions.
If any of this has had an impact on your view of God or Jesus, please read this article with an open heart and let me know if there's anything more I can do to help you.
Take care, and may God bless your life, that you may be a blessing to others!
Jeff Grant
God Questions
Original Message
My Greetings to you!
In this world their are people who are corrupt or are enemy of freedom. They want to take or curb individual's personal freedom.
Well I do not understand why God permits such peopleto come into power. Because such people when they get authoritythey misuse their powers. They do not do what they should doinstead they do wrong things. Such person come to serve their own selfish interests or they try to curb the freedom which common man like me enjoy all in the name of morality, values or traditions. They basically do things which is "right" according to them which is usually based upon their upbringing although a significant part of population does not agrees to it at all.They have their own prejudices which are wrong.
Who are these to take away the freedom and decide for a billion people?
So God has no influence, control over such such Governments and Government personnels? Has God left them on their free will?They do wrong thing but common man has to suffer for it.
I wish God to immediately kill them or make them severely sick so they will be forced to step down. God must punish such people. Will God do this?
Instead such people are prospering. God did not save my father but has given them a very long life.
Infact this is also one of the reason I do not like my life and thisbad world. God has not given me any power or authority. But has given itto wrong people.
I have just disapporoved this God created world.
So can you do something for me so that what I want will start to happen?
~R
Friday, September 7, 2007
"What About Those Who've Never Heard the Gospel" ~Shannon
"Recently my boyfriend of 2 years and i had a religious discussion. he confessed to me that he is having a hard time believing in Jesus. All through our relationship i was confident that we were on the same page spiritually, but this news of him doubting Jesus has broken my heart. his main problem is that he is having a hard time believing that only those who believe in Jesus will have eternal life. for example, what about the random tribes in Africa that have never heard of Jesus and some zealous missionary explains it to the tribe in a way that the tribe immediately rejects it, but the tribe members live their lives in a relatively "good" way (as they've been taught), but when they die, they burn in hell bc that missionary didn't do a good job of explaining christianity. He believes in God, but the Jesus part is what he's havingtrouble with. He's very intelligent and researches everything. He's having trouble grasping that God could condemn people to hell because they've never heard of Jesus. I believe that Jesus is the way, truth and the light. only through Him is eternal life. and some things we cannot understand bc God is of a higher power that our brains cannot even fathom. i believe you have to have faith that God knows what he's doing. But he gets frustrated of my answer "you have to have faith." he sees it as a cop-out. I have encouraged him to find a church to attend regularly and bible study (he lives in another state). how can i help him through this? we had planned to get engaged in the next year or so and i told him if we don't have the same beliefs, i cannot be with him, or raise children on an unequally yoked system. I realize this is a self journey he has to conquer on his own, but i want to help him in the right direction. any suggestions?" ~Shannon
"Thanks for writing! The issue your boyfriend is dealing with is not uncommon. I think every Christian who seriously considers their faith has to deal with this at some time or other.
I can't say that I've got all the answers on this (like you said, God is beyond us Isaiah 55:9), still, here are some thoughts that I have learned from the Bible:
God's prerogative: God made us all. We are His creations, and so He has the authority to do with us whatever He wants as much as it's nobody's business but mine if I want to break all my furniture. When all the stuff happened to Job, and all he wanted was to know why, God's answer was basically "that's my business, not yours" (except much cooler - Job 38).
God's fairness: Though we can't understand why God does all He does, we can trust that He is fair (Deuteronomy 32:4), that He Loves us (1 John 4:10), and that He doesn't want anyone to go to Hell (Matthew 18:14). I don't know whether Jesus reveals himself to people at the moment of death (though the highest % of converts from Islam are because of "visions of Jesus" almost like Paul's encounter on the road to damascus), or if it is simply that they are only held accountable for the revelation to which they've been given (Matthew 11:22-24), but we can trust in the qualities of His fairness and love that He has a plan. God doesn't hide the truth from anyone. Matthew 7:7 says "seek and you will find". Romans 1:20 says that God revealed Himself through nature since the dawn of time, so nobody has an excuse to say they didn't know better. I believe that God has written the knowledge of Himself on our very hearts (Jeremiah 31:33) and that no one can honestly believe that He does not exist (they only deny it because it is inconvenient to the sin nature).
Condemning a good person: A lot of people don't understand how God could condemn someone who leads a relatively good life:
1. The problem is that God and Heaven are perfect, and only that which is perfect can be there. Unless we are willing to put down our sin (at Jesus feet) and be renewed, it doesn't matter how "good" we are, because we'll always be imperfect.
2. CS Lewis (author of Lion the Witch and the Wardrobe) once said "the doors to Hell are locked from the inside." What he meant was that it isn't God who condemns and rejects us, but we who ultimately choose to reject Him and so enter Hell (which is by definition "absence of God"). Lewis also said it this way, "There are those who say to God 'thy will be done', and there are those to whom God says 'very well then, thy will be done.'"
3. Even if God did condemn a "good" person, he is only holding them to their own standards. Think of it this way. If you had a tape recorder hanging around your neck every day of your life, and then they played it back to you at the gates of heaven, how many judgments of other people, or sweeping statements or standards that you couldn't live up to yourself would we hear come out of your mouth?
I hope this helps! Let me know if you have any more questions, or if I didn't answer the question the way you meant. I'll be praying for you and your boyfriend!
PS For other people's perspective on this subject, type "never heard of Jesus" in Google. Be careful though, some people post some wacky stuff, so not every site is Biblical or even Christian.
PPS As for finding a good church fellowship for him, I can try to help if you tell me about where he lives, or you can look up churches in the area online or in the yellow pages, but he'll ultimately have to be the one to give it a try, and probably try a few churches until he finds a good one." ~Jeff
"Thanks for writing! The issue your boyfriend is dealing with is not uncommon. I think every Christian who seriously considers their faith has to deal with this at some time or other.
I can't say that I've got all the answers on this (like you said, God is beyond us Isaiah 55:9), still, here are some thoughts that I have learned from the Bible:
God's prerogative: God made us all. We are His creations, and so He has the authority to do with us whatever He wants as much as it's nobody's business but mine if I want to break all my furniture. When all the stuff happened to Job, and all he wanted was to know why, God's answer was basically "that's my business, not yours" (except much cooler - Job 38).
God's fairness: Though we can't understand why God does all He does, we can trust that He is fair (Deuteronomy 32:4), that He Loves us (1 John 4:10), and that He doesn't want anyone to go to Hell (Matthew 18:14). I don't know whether Jesus reveals himself to people at the moment of death (though the highest % of converts from Islam are because of "visions of Jesus" almost like Paul's encounter on the road to damascus), or if it is simply that they are only held accountable for the revelation to which they've been given (Matthew 11:22-24), but we can trust in the qualities of His fairness and love that He has a plan. God doesn't hide the truth from anyone. Matthew 7:7 says "seek and you will find". Romans 1:20 says that God revealed Himself through nature since the dawn of time, so nobody has an excuse to say they didn't know better. I believe that God has written the knowledge of Himself on our very hearts (Jeremiah 31:33) and that no one can honestly believe that He does not exist (they only deny it because it is inconvenient to the sin nature).
Condemning a good person: A lot of people don't understand how God could condemn someone who leads a relatively good life:
1. The problem is that God and Heaven are perfect, and only that which is perfect can be there. Unless we are willing to put down our sin (at Jesus feet) and be renewed, it doesn't matter how "good" we are, because we'll always be imperfect.
2. CS Lewis (author of Lion the Witch and the Wardrobe) once said "the doors to Hell are locked from the inside." What he meant was that it isn't God who condemns and rejects us, but we who ultimately choose to reject Him and so enter Hell (which is by definition "absence of God"). Lewis also said it this way, "There are those who say to God 'thy will be done', and there are those to whom God says 'very well then, thy will be done.'"
3. Even if God did condemn a "good" person, he is only holding them to their own standards. Think of it this way. If you had a tape recorder hanging around your neck every day of your life, and then they played it back to you at the gates of heaven, how many judgments of other people, or sweeping statements or standards that you couldn't live up to yourself would we hear come out of your mouth?
I hope this helps! Let me know if you have any more questions, or if I didn't answer the question the way you meant. I'll be praying for you and your boyfriend!
PS For other people's perspective on this subject, type "never heard of Jesus" in Google. Be careful though, some people post some wacky stuff, so not every site is Biblical or even Christian.
PPS As for finding a good church fellowship for him, I can try to help if you tell me about where he lives, or you can look up churches in the area online or in the yellow pages, but he'll ultimately have to be the one to give it a try, and probably try a few churches until he finds a good one." ~Jeff
"Is Christianity Plagurized from Older Religions?" ~Debra
"hi, i've been discussing God's existance on a board with many atheists...one of them brought up the Hindu religion and Krishna as having been around before Jesus but claiming a bunch of similarities with Him, suggesting that the story of Christ was plaigurized later. i and another christian have been trying to refute this but as yet, have not been able to convince her.. i hoped you might have some information that may help. thanks and God bless you." ~Debra
"First of all, I respect your bold efforts to engage atheists for the sake of Christ's love! This is not an easy thing to do, and one thing you'll realize is that they are at varying "spiritual temperatures". In other words, some of them are genuinely curious and have just a few barriers to belief that you can help dispell. Others, however, are entrenched and embittered. Though God can change any heart, you may feel like you're banging your head against a wall when trying to debate with them. Certainly, facts are not what change them most often, but the experience of lovingkindness that surpasses our human nature. I actually just took a class on recognizing where people are at in the scale of receptiveness to hostility toward the gospel and how to engage them where they are at to encourage them in the right direction. I can tell you more about that if you're curious.
I believe the Hindu religion is older than Christianity (though I'm not sure about Judaism), and Krishna does have a self-sacrificial story to it. There are sacrifice myths in many ancient religions (like Greek and Egyptian mythology). However, the motivation behind the sacrifice and the need for it were much different than that of Christ. Also, there is an abundance of historical evidence for Jesus' life, teachings, death and resurrection. The same cannot be said for any other religion. For more on that, I suggest The Case for Christ by Lee Strobel or More than a Carpenter. The point is that history can't plagurize. The idea of self-sacrifice and even of defeating death is as inherent in humanity as the fear of death itself. These would creep into stories since the dawn of civilization because they are universal emotions. Carl Jung would call them "archetypes", memories or emotions that all humans have in common. The idea of God is also common to all men, as Jung would call it the "archetypal mother". The Christian take on that is that God wrote certain things on our hearts (Romans 1:20). Sin and forgiveness, grace and mercy are completely different. Though we all have a sense of morality and a knowledge that we fail to hold up to that standard, it is the Bible that explains why that is. That Jesus lived, died, and that his body disappeared are corroborated with secular historical documents. Why He died and returned is completely different than Hinduism (a religion which cannot agree with itself even on whether one, many or any gods exist at all).
I hope this helps. Carry on with the good fight, but realize also that logic is not usually what atheists are looking for from us. What really tends to open people's hearts to the gospel is a live filled with acts of love that defy human nature." ~Jeff
"First of all, I respect your bold efforts to engage atheists for the sake of Christ's love! This is not an easy thing to do, and one thing you'll realize is that they are at varying "spiritual temperatures". In other words, some of them are genuinely curious and have just a few barriers to belief that you can help dispell. Others, however, are entrenched and embittered. Though God can change any heart, you may feel like you're banging your head against a wall when trying to debate with them. Certainly, facts are not what change them most often, but the experience of lovingkindness that surpasses our human nature. I actually just took a class on recognizing where people are at in the scale of receptiveness to hostility toward the gospel and how to engage them where they are at to encourage them in the right direction. I can tell you more about that if you're curious.
I believe the Hindu religion is older than Christianity (though I'm not sure about Judaism), and Krishna does have a self-sacrificial story to it. There are sacrifice myths in many ancient religions (like Greek and Egyptian mythology). However, the motivation behind the sacrifice and the need for it were much different than that of Christ. Also, there is an abundance of historical evidence for Jesus' life, teachings, death and resurrection. The same cannot be said for any other religion. For more on that, I suggest The Case for Christ by Lee Strobel or More than a Carpenter. The point is that history can't plagurize. The idea of self-sacrifice and even of defeating death is as inherent in humanity as the fear of death itself. These would creep into stories since the dawn of civilization because they are universal emotions. Carl Jung would call them "archetypes", memories or emotions that all humans have in common. The idea of God is also common to all men, as Jung would call it the "archetypal mother". The Christian take on that is that God wrote certain things on our hearts (Romans 1:20). Sin and forgiveness, grace and mercy are completely different. Though we all have a sense of morality and a knowledge that we fail to hold up to that standard, it is the Bible that explains why that is. That Jesus lived, died, and that his body disappeared are corroborated with secular historical documents. Why He died and returned is completely different than Hinduism (a religion which cannot agree with itself even on whether one, many or any gods exist at all).
I hope this helps. Carry on with the good fight, but realize also that logic is not usually what atheists are looking for from us. What really tends to open people's hearts to the gospel is a live filled with acts of love that defy human nature." ~Jeff
"Is Jesus Equal With God?" ~Graydon
"Jeff, my church believes in the Trinity. Further it defines the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit as one and co-equal in ever respect (my words). I can accept the Trinity concept but the co-equal part and that Jesus is the same as the "Most High God" of the OT, I have a problem with. I see Jesus as my High Priest, my savior and redeamer and a God but not the "Most High God, the Father. I think Jesus tells us time and again He is not the Father. Feel lost reading the Bible if I cannot differentate among the three. Please help me if you can." ~Graydon
"Great question! The Trinity is probably the most difficult concept in... well I was going to say Cristianity, but probably all of life!
To an extent, I agree with you. Jesus tells us to pray to and worship the Father, not the Son, but that doesn't exactly make Him less than the Father. Likewise, the Holy Spirit draws no attention to Himself, but points it all to Jesus and through Him to the Father, but still He is no less than the other two. They are one person after all, so it's like saying Graydon is not not co-equal with Graydon. The best way I've discovered to differentiate between them is to think of their roles the way a man can play different roles in his life too. At the same time you may be a brother, son, father, co-worker, etc. We can even be in several of these roles at the same time (if the right people are in the room). Obviously, the analogy runs a little short, since we can't be in three places (or infinite places) at once, but it's a start. So, here are some of the roles I see each of them playing, and I'm sure there are more:
God the Father: Maker, Creator, Master, Father, God over us
God the Son: Savior, Interceder, Role-Model, Brother, God with us
God the Holy Spirit: Sustainer, Interpreter, Motivator, God in us
CS Lewis (who wrote the Narnia books and Mere Christianity, which is my favorite book after the Bible) explained that when we pray, we become part of this amazing dance with God, wherein:
1. The Holy Spirit prays through us (prompting us to pray sometimes with "groanings without words")
2. The Son prays for us (as our interceding High Priest in whose name we pray)
3. The Father hears and responds to our prayers.
No part is more important than the other and, in fact no part has ever existed without the other. There's strong Biblical support that Jesus and the Holy Spirit existed during creation and even before time began.
I hope this helps. The Trinity really is something we aren't to fully understand until we are in our heavenly bodies, but it's enough to say that all demand our utmost respect, but each is to be treated according to His role. I'm off on a conference right now, but if you'd like, I can take some more time to find verses and such to go along with this. I welcome your feedback, whether you agree or not, and any more questions or input you have." ~Jeff
"Great question! The Trinity is probably the most difficult concept in... well I was going to say Cristianity, but probably all of life!
To an extent, I agree with you. Jesus tells us to pray to and worship the Father, not the Son, but that doesn't exactly make Him less than the Father. Likewise, the Holy Spirit draws no attention to Himself, but points it all to Jesus and through Him to the Father, but still He is no less than the other two. They are one person after all, so it's like saying Graydon is not not co-equal with Graydon. The best way I've discovered to differentiate between them is to think of their roles the way a man can play different roles in his life too. At the same time you may be a brother, son, father, co-worker, etc. We can even be in several of these roles at the same time (if the right people are in the room). Obviously, the analogy runs a little short, since we can't be in three places (or infinite places) at once, but it's a start. So, here are some of the roles I see each of them playing, and I'm sure there are more:
God the Father: Maker, Creator, Master, Father, God over us
God the Son: Savior, Interceder, Role-Model, Brother, God with us
God the Holy Spirit: Sustainer, Interpreter, Motivator, God in us
CS Lewis (who wrote the Narnia books and Mere Christianity, which is my favorite book after the Bible) explained that when we pray, we become part of this amazing dance with God, wherein:
1. The Holy Spirit prays through us (prompting us to pray sometimes with "groanings without words")
2. The Son prays for us (as our interceding High Priest in whose name we pray)
3. The Father hears and responds to our prayers.
No part is more important than the other and, in fact no part has ever existed without the other. There's strong Biblical support that Jesus and the Holy Spirit existed during creation and even before time began.
I hope this helps. The Trinity really is something we aren't to fully understand until we are in our heavenly bodies, but it's enough to say that all demand our utmost respect, but each is to be treated according to His role. I'm off on a conference right now, but if you'd like, I can take some more time to find verses and such to go along with this. I welcome your feedback, whether you agree or not, and any more questions or input you have." ~Jeff
"Does God Still Perform Miracles?" ~Cherise
"Hi, how are you? I wanted your opinion on whether you think God performs miracles in the world, and if so why doesn't he perform more especially since so many people are suffering. P.S Can you pray for me to get good exam results
thank you." ~Cherise
"Thanks for writing!
I will certainly pray for your exam results, but don't worry. As long as you're giving your best and keeping God's will as your priority, he'll give you the results you need to take you down the path He has for you.
Now, on to your question:
Does God perform miracles today?
In short, I definitely believe that God performs miracles today. To answer your full question better though, we have to first figure out what is meant by miracle. I believe that a miracle is a direct intervention of God that goes against what we understand to be the general laws of nature. A more subtle way that God intervenes we call "providence", where He uses the laws of nature and gently prepares things to accomplish His will (like using the weather patterns to snow us in on a day He wants people stuck together or something). Biblically and historically, God's preferred method has been providence, specifically through the work of His servants, but we still do see some miracles today.
Miracles tend to happen more in areas where there is less confidence in human science and ability. I have heard from very credible sources of people being bodily raised from the dead in front of witnesses in countries like Haiti and African nations. Both Satan and God seem to operate more subtley in 1st world countries though. I believe that is primarily because we have grown skeptical of such events. Where fear tactics might work for Satan in Djubuti, in the US he prefers to pretend he doesn't exist at all. Similarly, with so much hoax and flashiness in America and Britain, God tests our true faith through His silence (or at least his still small voice - 1 Kings 19:11-13).
God has never put a whole lot of stock in miracles to change our hearts though. He has seen how quickly the Israelites fell away from Him even after amazing acts like the parting of the Red Sea. Jesus said "A wicked and adulterous generation asks for a miraculous sign! But none will be given it" (Matthew 12:39). When a man begs Jesus for a miracle to cause his friends and family to believe, Jesus says "If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead" (Luke 16:31).
Why doesn't God stop people from suffering?
That's a really good question, Cherise! It's a long answer though, so I'll point you to a website where I answered it for someone else: http://jeffgrant1stblog.blogspot.com/2007/02/i-was-just-wondering-if-you-could.html. Feel free to write back and let me know what you think!" ~Jeff
thank you." ~Cherise
"Thanks for writing!
I will certainly pray for your exam results, but don't worry. As long as you're giving your best and keeping God's will as your priority, he'll give you the results you need to take you down the path He has for you.
Now, on to your question:
Does God perform miracles today?
In short, I definitely believe that God performs miracles today. To answer your full question better though, we have to first figure out what is meant by miracle. I believe that a miracle is a direct intervention of God that goes against what we understand to be the general laws of nature. A more subtle way that God intervenes we call "providence", where He uses the laws of nature and gently prepares things to accomplish His will (like using the weather patterns to snow us in on a day He wants people stuck together or something). Biblically and historically, God's preferred method has been providence, specifically through the work of His servants, but we still do see some miracles today.
Miracles tend to happen more in areas where there is less confidence in human science and ability. I have heard from very credible sources of people being bodily raised from the dead in front of witnesses in countries like Haiti and African nations. Both Satan and God seem to operate more subtley in 1st world countries though. I believe that is primarily because we have grown skeptical of such events. Where fear tactics might work for Satan in Djubuti, in the US he prefers to pretend he doesn't exist at all. Similarly, with so much hoax and flashiness in America and Britain, God tests our true faith through His silence (or at least his still small voice - 1 Kings 19:11-13).
God has never put a whole lot of stock in miracles to change our hearts though. He has seen how quickly the Israelites fell away from Him even after amazing acts like the parting of the Red Sea. Jesus said "A wicked and adulterous generation asks for a miraculous sign! But none will be given it" (Matthew 12:39). When a man begs Jesus for a miracle to cause his friends and family to believe, Jesus says "If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead" (Luke 16:31).
Why doesn't God stop people from suffering?
That's a really good question, Cherise! It's a long answer though, so I'll point you to a website where I answered it for someone else: http://jeffgrant1stblog.blogspot.com/2007/02/i-was-just-wondering-if-you-could.html. Feel free to write back and let me know what you think!" ~Jeff
"Doubting God for the first time" ~Chance
"thanks a lot for your time . I have never questioned myself or my beliefs before . I am having a dry moment if you will and having a hard time seeking god. I used to wake up and thank God for everything and now i wake wondering if he is real.. I am just being honest to myself.I know without a shodow of a doubt that this world didnt hapen by chance. I hope that this season doesn't last long. May god bless you and your co laborers in Christ." ~Chance
"Thank you for your blessings, Chance! Thanks also for your honesty.
I've gone through many dry spells myself, some of which happened while I was leading ministry. They still come back from time to time too, so you're not alone. I get afraid that it's my fault, because I know that unrepentant sin can cause that barrier. I get even more afraid that all my beliefs really were just wishful thinking.
The fact of the matter is, feeling God's presence and feeling Him to be true are not the basis of our faith. Feelings come and go, just as the feeling of love for my wife is not a firm basis for my marriage. Our feelings are swayed by so many variables that we can't possibly even count them all (relationships, chemical balance, barametric pressure, etc). When we place our trust in God, we are saying that we will be faithful and follow Him, even when we don't understand all the facts and even when we don't feel a desire or even a confidence in Him.
There are a couple of books that addressed this issue, which I read while I was going through this. The first, written by Oswald Chambers, is My Utmost for His Highest. It's a daily devotional that's not always easy to swallow. At one point, he talks about when God is silent in our lives. He says that it may be a sin issue (that we can't hear Him) but that it may be God testing us, a crucial step in our development. The second, by CS Lewis, is The Screwtape Letters. It's a compilation of fictional letters from one demon to another on how to torment a Christian. At one point, Screwtape explains that sometimes God ("the Enemy") hides His presence from us so that we can learn to walk on our own, like taking his hand off our bicycle seat. He explains that, while Satan wants to consume us and absorb us into himself, God desires to make us into little versions of Himself (more specifically His Son). In order to do that, He needs to put us through trials, and some of them involve facing situations without Him (like in the garden when God left Adam and Eve alone).
I've got two bits of advice, and you can take them or leave them but they come from the heart:
1.) Keep on doing what you know is right. Your relationship with God up to this point has probably been strong enough that you can tell what He wants from you even when He's not speaking (like knowing what your friend or relative would say if they were in the room with you). This period will pass once God has taught you what He needs you to learn (it may be someone else He's doing this for though, like He put me through it so I could talk to you).
2.) I once went through an "Experiencing God" Bible study, and found it quite helpful. One of the things it said was, "if you want to have God work in your life, find where He's at work already and join Him." This is one of the reasons I decided to become a missionary. I realized that all of life is not about me, but about God. He's the main character of the story of life, and He created us to be a part of His mission in the world. I believe our lives and the hours we spend within them are exactly as significant as the time we spend with God and a part of His mission. It makes sense that we would feel lost and unfulfilled if we are not doing what we were created to do, because we're malfunctioning creations. Try getting more involved in service. Seeing God change the lives of people around you is one of the clearest ways to see Him (just as you see the wind when you look at the leaves being changed by it)."
"Thanks again Jeff! I really needed your encouragement. I also would like to thank you for being obedient to the call on your life and your ministry. I was actually ashamed to admit it but I am in the ministry myself.
I feel and have felt a call on my life to get up and do something like go to another country and spend a couple of months. The problem is that I can’t see spending thousands of raised dollars to send me to dts when I can send that money to someone who is a missionary in lets say Africa and let them dig a well or feed some kids for a year or two.
Have any ideas I graduate in dec and really want to do something before I start a job. I know that sounds vain that I am only considering missionary work for a year or so but I do not want to be a burden for others who are working at home. I am not at all implying that I think that all missionaries are burdens but I am just confused about the whole support thing." ~Chance
"No problem, Chance!
You have no idea how uplifting it is to feel like I've made a difference for someone. Especially right now, as my wife and I are raising OUR initial support and are unable to get out on the campuses to reach students until that goal is reached.
There is no shame in doubt, not even for someone in ministry. When we step out to serve God more fully, we present ourselves as bigger targets to the enemy, who would prefer that we stay comfortable and ineffective.
International Missions: I too felt called to the mission field, and I thought it was overseas at first as well, but God kept closing doors and not saying why. I agree with you about the large % of support that goes to getting the missionary's body to the mission field. That is one of the reasons Campus Crusade is so appealing to me. Not only am I serving where I live, but their stance on international missions is very practical and good stewardship. We have campus ministry in 192 countries (74 more than McDonald's :), but most of the time the ministry is not run by Americans in say Africa, but by locals ministering to their peers. Students and staff are encouraged to take occassional stints to other countries, to provide added support and to broaden our own perspectives, but most of our mission trips are within the US (Katrina relief, beach outreach, etc). That was one way CCC blew me away, since my wife and I had no experience with them until about a year ago.
Biblical Support Raising: My own understanding about support raising has been a journey. I have felt for years that God wanted me to serve Him full time, but I always thought raising support would be a "necessary evil" part of that process. Campus Crusade spent a week of our new staff training talking about the support raising and at least a whole day of that was the Biblical support for what we're doing. God created the missionary support situation in the OT with the Levites. He said that they would minister to the people as priests, and they would have no land or food of their own. Instead, everyone would give a tithe to God, and out of that, God would take care of them. The prophets were likewise supported by the people, travelling from town to town and living with host families. It was a deep honor for the hosts to have the prophet choose them. The NT has a similar situation with Rabbis, that's why Zacchias was so blown away when Jesus chose him. When Jesus sent His disciples out two-by-two, He even told them how to pick the host, not to feel ashamed at their generosity and even how angry it makes God when people do not support them (Luke 10:7, Matthew 10:13-15). Finally, Paul and his cojourners were missionaries. Yes, some people point out that he supported himself through tent making, but that was only part of the time. Paul was also supported by churches. The book of Phillipians is basically a "thank you" support letter. In Phillipians 2:25-30, Paul alludes to the financial gift they sent through Epaphroditus, and in 4:10-19 he makes his intentions on that matter much more clear.
Mission Advice: This may sound biased, but have you thought about Campus Crusade? I don't think it's a coincidence that God brought you to me, while I am discovering this organization more fully myself. They have ministry needs all over the place (including right where you are) where you can see God at work in the lives of people who are discovering Him. You can take an internship with them for one or two years either right where you are, through an international stint, or at the Headquarters in Orlando. The first makes sense in terms of not raising support to cart you to some far-off place, the second is for your seeking God's will, and so is the third (because it gives you a taste of all the ministries going on and a good plug-in to wherever you might want to go next). That being said, take my advice with a grain of salt. There are plenty of wonderful organizations out there. It really needs to be between you and God that the decision is made. Pray about it (even if you feel like He isn't listening), then look at your situation, the talents and passions he's given you, the resources (including social connections) and what really bothers you (what you feel a calling to change in this world). Then, as long as God is your priority and the King of your decision, take a step and He'll stop you or redirect you (even with a whale) if He needs to." ~Jeff
"Thank you for your blessings, Chance! Thanks also for your honesty.
I've gone through many dry spells myself, some of which happened while I was leading ministry. They still come back from time to time too, so you're not alone. I get afraid that it's my fault, because I know that unrepentant sin can cause that barrier. I get even more afraid that all my beliefs really were just wishful thinking.
The fact of the matter is, feeling God's presence and feeling Him to be true are not the basis of our faith. Feelings come and go, just as the feeling of love for my wife is not a firm basis for my marriage. Our feelings are swayed by so many variables that we can't possibly even count them all (relationships, chemical balance, barametric pressure, etc). When we place our trust in God, we are saying that we will be faithful and follow Him, even when we don't understand all the facts and even when we don't feel a desire or even a confidence in Him.
There are a couple of books that addressed this issue, which I read while I was going through this. The first, written by Oswald Chambers, is My Utmost for His Highest. It's a daily devotional that's not always easy to swallow. At one point, he talks about when God is silent in our lives. He says that it may be a sin issue (that we can't hear Him) but that it may be God testing us, a crucial step in our development. The second, by CS Lewis, is The Screwtape Letters. It's a compilation of fictional letters from one demon to another on how to torment a Christian. At one point, Screwtape explains that sometimes God ("the Enemy") hides His presence from us so that we can learn to walk on our own, like taking his hand off our bicycle seat. He explains that, while Satan wants to consume us and absorb us into himself, God desires to make us into little versions of Himself (more specifically His Son). In order to do that, He needs to put us through trials, and some of them involve facing situations without Him (like in the garden when God left Adam and Eve alone).
I've got two bits of advice, and you can take them or leave them but they come from the heart:
1.) Keep on doing what you know is right. Your relationship with God up to this point has probably been strong enough that you can tell what He wants from you even when He's not speaking (like knowing what your friend or relative would say if they were in the room with you). This period will pass once God has taught you what He needs you to learn (it may be someone else He's doing this for though, like He put me through it so I could talk to you).
2.) I once went through an "Experiencing God" Bible study, and found it quite helpful. One of the things it said was, "if you want to have God work in your life, find where He's at work already and join Him." This is one of the reasons I decided to become a missionary. I realized that all of life is not about me, but about God. He's the main character of the story of life, and He created us to be a part of His mission in the world. I believe our lives and the hours we spend within them are exactly as significant as the time we spend with God and a part of His mission. It makes sense that we would feel lost and unfulfilled if we are not doing what we were created to do, because we're malfunctioning creations. Try getting more involved in service. Seeing God change the lives of people around you is one of the clearest ways to see Him (just as you see the wind when you look at the leaves being changed by it)."
"Thanks again Jeff! I really needed your encouragement. I also would like to thank you for being obedient to the call on your life and your ministry. I was actually ashamed to admit it but I am in the ministry myself.
I feel and have felt a call on my life to get up and do something like go to another country and spend a couple of months. The problem is that I can’t see spending thousands of raised dollars to send me to dts when I can send that money to someone who is a missionary in lets say Africa and let them dig a well or feed some kids for a year or two.
Have any ideas I graduate in dec and really want to do something before I start a job. I know that sounds vain that I am only considering missionary work for a year or so but I do not want to be a burden for others who are working at home. I am not at all implying that I think that all missionaries are burdens but I am just confused about the whole support thing." ~Chance
"No problem, Chance!
You have no idea how uplifting it is to feel like I've made a difference for someone. Especially right now, as my wife and I are raising OUR initial support and are unable to get out on the campuses to reach students until that goal is reached.
There is no shame in doubt, not even for someone in ministry. When we step out to serve God more fully, we present ourselves as bigger targets to the enemy, who would prefer that we stay comfortable and ineffective.
International Missions: I too felt called to the mission field, and I thought it was overseas at first as well, but God kept closing doors and not saying why. I agree with you about the large % of support that goes to getting the missionary's body to the mission field. That is one of the reasons Campus Crusade is so appealing to me. Not only am I serving where I live, but their stance on international missions is very practical and good stewardship. We have campus ministry in 192 countries (74 more than McDonald's :), but most of the time the ministry is not run by Americans in say Africa, but by locals ministering to their peers. Students and staff are encouraged to take occassional stints to other countries, to provide added support and to broaden our own perspectives, but most of our mission trips are within the US (Katrina relief, beach outreach, etc). That was one way CCC blew me away, since my wife and I had no experience with them until about a year ago.
Biblical Support Raising: My own understanding about support raising has been a journey. I have felt for years that God wanted me to serve Him full time, but I always thought raising support would be a "necessary evil" part of that process. Campus Crusade spent a week of our new staff training talking about the support raising and at least a whole day of that was the Biblical support for what we're doing. God created the missionary support situation in the OT with the Levites. He said that they would minister to the people as priests, and they would have no land or food of their own. Instead, everyone would give a tithe to God, and out of that, God would take care of them. The prophets were likewise supported by the people, travelling from town to town and living with host families. It was a deep honor for the hosts to have the prophet choose them. The NT has a similar situation with Rabbis, that's why Zacchias was so blown away when Jesus chose him. When Jesus sent His disciples out two-by-two, He even told them how to pick the host, not to feel ashamed at their generosity and even how angry it makes God when people do not support them (Luke 10:7, Matthew 10:13-15). Finally, Paul and his cojourners were missionaries. Yes, some people point out that he supported himself through tent making, but that was only part of the time. Paul was also supported by churches. The book of Phillipians is basically a "thank you" support letter. In Phillipians 2:25-30, Paul alludes to the financial gift they sent through Epaphroditus, and in 4:10-19 he makes his intentions on that matter much more clear.
Mission Advice: This may sound biased, but have you thought about Campus Crusade? I don't think it's a coincidence that God brought you to me, while I am discovering this organization more fully myself. They have ministry needs all over the place (including right where you are) where you can see God at work in the lives of people who are discovering Him. You can take an internship with them for one or two years either right where you are, through an international stint, or at the Headquarters in Orlando. The first makes sense in terms of not raising support to cart you to some far-off place, the second is for your seeking God's will, and so is the third (because it gives you a taste of all the ministries going on and a good plug-in to wherever you might want to go next). That being said, take my advice with a grain of salt. There are plenty of wonderful organizations out there. It really needs to be between you and God that the decision is made. Pray about it (even if you feel like He isn't listening), then look at your situation, the talents and passions he's given you, the resources (including social connections) and what really bothers you (what you feel a calling to change in this world). Then, as long as God is your priority and the King of your decision, take a step and He'll stop you or redirect you (even with a whale) if He needs to." ~Jeff
"Why did God choose to be so mysterious?" ~Chance
"Why did god chose to be so mystical (EX like other false Gods)?" ~Chance
"I'll do my best to share what I have come to believe, but with the knowledge that our 4-dimensional minds (4th being time) cannot fully understand an infinite being or His ways (Isaiah 55:9):
There are at least two reasonable answers to this one. The first is, as I said, that God is just a lot more complex than we are, so we just plain don't get Him. The second answer is slightly more complicated and involves free will and God's mission in the world:
The Bible explains that God created the world and people so that someone could enter into a loving relationship with Him of their own choice. In order to do that, we needed to be able to choose His way or our own (which is where evil comes from). However, God is so mighty and glorious that His full and undoubtable presence would annhialate any disbelief or disobedience. Example: If I tell you to keep your hand out of the cookie jar and then take the jar away somewhere, you aren't obeying because you want to. So, God communicates with us through His people, through nature and circumstances, and as a "still small voice" (1 Kings 19:11-13). We are not able to know things for certain, because God wants us to trust Him rather than trust our own knowledge. If I gave you directions to a place you could already see (or had been to before), you would have no need to trust me.
However, there are plenty of facts that support the Christian God well over false gods (even of the other major religions). Some of these that I can list are:
1.) the more than 100 prophecies in the Old Testament that were fulfilled to the letter by Jesus more than 400 years later (many of which were completely beyond a human's power to control)
2.) Jesus death recorded by non-Christian Romans, and His resurrected body witnessed by over 400 people at one time (1 Corinthians 15:6)
3.) the many disciples and followers who died rather than recant what their own eyes had seen
For more evidence (none of which will 100% garauntee and so eliminate the need for faith and trust), check out The Case for a Creator by Lee Strobel and/or http://www.everystudent.com/ which has articles about it too."
"I'll do my best to share what I have come to believe, but with the knowledge that our 4-dimensional minds (4th being time) cannot fully understand an infinite being or His ways (Isaiah 55:9):
There are at least two reasonable answers to this one. The first is, as I said, that God is just a lot more complex than we are, so we just plain don't get Him. The second answer is slightly more complicated and involves free will and God's mission in the world:
The Bible explains that God created the world and people so that someone could enter into a loving relationship with Him of their own choice. In order to do that, we needed to be able to choose His way or our own (which is where evil comes from). However, God is so mighty and glorious that His full and undoubtable presence would annhialate any disbelief or disobedience. Example: If I tell you to keep your hand out of the cookie jar and then take the jar away somewhere, you aren't obeying because you want to. So, God communicates with us through His people, through nature and circumstances, and as a "still small voice" (1 Kings 19:11-13). We are not able to know things for certain, because God wants us to trust Him rather than trust our own knowledge. If I gave you directions to a place you could already see (or had been to before), you would have no need to trust me.
However, there are plenty of facts that support the Christian God well over false gods (even of the other major religions). Some of these that I can list are:
1.) the more than 100 prophecies in the Old Testament that were fulfilled to the letter by Jesus more than 400 years later (many of which were completely beyond a human's power to control)
2.) Jesus death recorded by non-Christian Romans, and His resurrected body witnessed by over 400 people at one time (1 Corinthians 15:6)
3.) the many disciples and followers who died rather than recant what their own eyes had seen
For more evidence (none of which will 100% garauntee and so eliminate the need for faith and trust), check out The Case for a Creator by Lee Strobel and/or http://www.everystudent.com/ which has articles about it too."
"What came before God" ~Chance
"If god is real then who created him or how was he created there has to be some starting point. Right??" ~Chance
"This is a mind boggling issue that is one of the foundational questions of philosophy for all religions and atheistic worldviews. Either there is a beginning (a spontaneous something from nothing), or there has always been something. All sides pretty much agree that the latter is the case, those who believe in God and those who don't.
The most popular Atheist belief is that the universe is eternal, that it has been an infinite cycle of a "big bang" and a "big crunch" starting over and over and over again.
Christianity holds that God Himself is infinite and eternal (the "uncaused cause") and that He exists outside time. In Genesis, God created the universe, and He created time. So the answer to your question would be that noone created God. He is the starting point. If you believe "there has to be some starting point" it's Christians who agree with you, not atheists." ~Jeff
"This is a mind boggling issue that is one of the foundational questions of philosophy for all religions and atheistic worldviews. Either there is a beginning (a spontaneous something from nothing), or there has always been something. All sides pretty much agree that the latter is the case, those who believe in God and those who don't.
The most popular Atheist belief is that the universe is eternal, that it has been an infinite cycle of a "big bang" and a "big crunch" starting over and over and over again.
Christianity holds that God Himself is infinite and eternal (the "uncaused cause") and that He exists outside time. In Genesis, God created the universe, and He created time. So the answer to your question would be that noone created God. He is the starting point. If you believe "there has to be some starting point" it's Christians who agree with you, not atheists." ~Jeff
Monday, April 23, 2007
Questions from an Odinist
I believe that Jesus existed, however, I do not believe he was the son of God.
That's a fairly common point of view. The problem is that Jesus claimed to be the son of God and claimed all the authorities of God Himself, so what you need to ask yourself is, "was Jesus lying, crazy, or is he God?" Those are the only 3 options. I've heard a lot of talk about him being a good person and even a profit, but those are impossible conclusions.
Christians gladly point out that there is ample evidence suggesting Jesus was the son of God. What is that evidence? Because, frankly, all I find is some pseudo-scientifical babble that supposedly proves his resurrection (which is fysically impossible)
Unfortunately, nothing historical can be 100% proven scientifically. The very crux of science hangs on repeatability, which discounts proving miracles for obvious reasons but also discounts historical events. The best we can do for evidence is by using a courtroom example. Lee Strobel's "The Case for Christ" does a pretty good job of examining this evidence, but I can give you a few snapshots from my memory of the book. Lawyers would use physical evidence (like the crosses and crucified bodies archaeoligists have uncovered that show the practice), documentation (such as the records of the non-Christian, Roman historian Josephus, who reports the death and burial of Jesus), eyewitnesses to Jesus after his death (of which there were more than 500 at a single time), credibility of those witnesses (their willingness to be tortured and killed for their testimony). There is a ton more on that, but more important is the evidence of the Trinity's interaction in our lives today (http://everystudent.com/~JeffGrant).
Also, if this "Son of God" was so peaceful and promised us a better world, why then did the Romans crucify him? Crucifixion was a punishment only reserverd for violent revolutionaries (f.ex. Spartacus) and murderers.
Are you aking if Jesus was peaceful, or questioning the fact of his crucifiction? The latter is recorded in Roman history. The former is easily enough explained by John 19:4-16. Many revolutionaries were crucified by the Romans for claiming to be the Messiah. It was the threat of the "King of the Jews" that the Romans were concerned about. Pilot (the Roman in who eventually ordered his execution) told the people that Jesus had done nothing to deserve death, but the Jewish officials persuaded him that if he didn’t condemn Jesus, he would be committing treason himself since Jesus claimed to be a king. For the Jewish leaders, Jesus had committed a crime by calling himself the Son of God which would be blasphemy from anyone but him and punishable by death.
you'd think the Romans, who were very passionate about noting down the facts of history, would have written something about those miracles...
No Roman historians were 1st person witnesses to the miracles, as far as I know. The Romans were, for the most part, skeptics. There are recordings of his death and his body’s disappearance are recorded, but any records of Jesus’ miracles would have been considered “Christian writing”, so probably wouldn’t have been included with their other documents. Most of this is a speculative comment, since I have not done deep research into Roman historical documents. Have you found that there are no records on miracles?
Resurrection from the grave is also historically impossible, since crucifixion "victims" were not interred at all, but rather left to rot.
It was the Jewish custom to bury the dead, not the Roman. This is documented in John 19:38 and also by Josephus, the Roman historian.
There is actually more historic and scientific evidence that Jesus was NOT the person that was described in the bible, but rather some Che Guevara of Antiquity...
I would certainly like to see your sources for such evidence. Please, tell me how you came to that conclusion.
So I would like to know what is this scientific evidence that proves al non-christians wrong...
I would be happy to examine any evidence against Christianity, as I have investigated the “Tomb of Jesus” claims and the “Da Vinci Code” claims. To date, however, the archaeological, scientific, and historical evidence has supported Biblical claims to the point that the British Museum (one of the most traditionally atheistic establishments in the world) actually displays Bible verses with their exhibits (click here to check it out).
Kind regards,
Patrick,
Belgium
PS: For the record, I am not an atheist, but an Odinist that is tired of seeing European people and their American cousins deny the faith of their ancestors, for a "peaceful" faith that was forced upon their ancestors with huge amounts of violence ( Charlemagne's persecutions of the "pagans", the Danish genocide, ...)
That is very interesting, Patrick! I would dearly enjoy hearing more about your belief in Odinism. I wasn't aware that the worship of the Norse Pantheon was still practiced. Do you feel that there is more evidence of their existence than that of Jesus?
~Jeff
That's a fairly common point of view. The problem is that Jesus claimed to be the son of God and claimed all the authorities of God Himself, so what you need to ask yourself is, "was Jesus lying, crazy, or is he God?" Those are the only 3 options. I've heard a lot of talk about him being a good person and even a profit, but those are impossible conclusions.
Christians gladly point out that there is ample evidence suggesting Jesus was the son of God. What is that evidence? Because, frankly, all I find is some pseudo-scientifical babble that supposedly proves his resurrection (which is fysically impossible)
Unfortunately, nothing historical can be 100% proven scientifically. The very crux of science hangs on repeatability, which discounts proving miracles for obvious reasons but also discounts historical events. The best we can do for evidence is by using a courtroom example. Lee Strobel's "The Case for Christ" does a pretty good job of examining this evidence, but I can give you a few snapshots from my memory of the book. Lawyers would use physical evidence (like the crosses and crucified bodies archaeoligists have uncovered that show the practice), documentation (such as the records of the non-Christian, Roman historian Josephus, who reports the death and burial of Jesus), eyewitnesses to Jesus after his death (of which there were more than 500 at a single time), credibility of those witnesses (their willingness to be tortured and killed for their testimony). There is a ton more on that, but more important is the evidence of the Trinity's interaction in our lives today (http://everystudent.com/~JeffGrant).
Also, if this "Son of God" was so peaceful and promised us a better world, why then did the Romans crucify him? Crucifixion was a punishment only reserverd for violent revolutionaries (f.ex. Spartacus) and murderers.
Are you aking if Jesus was peaceful, or questioning the fact of his crucifiction? The latter is recorded in Roman history. The former is easily enough explained by John 19:4-16. Many revolutionaries were crucified by the Romans for claiming to be the Messiah. It was the threat of the "King of the Jews" that the Romans were concerned about. Pilot (the Roman in who eventually ordered his execution) told the people that Jesus had done nothing to deserve death, but the Jewish officials persuaded him that if he didn’t condemn Jesus, he would be committing treason himself since Jesus claimed to be a king. For the Jewish leaders, Jesus had committed a crime by calling himself the Son of God which would be blasphemy from anyone but him and punishable by death.
you'd think the Romans, who were very passionate about noting down the facts of history, would have written something about those miracles...
No Roman historians were 1st person witnesses to the miracles, as far as I know. The Romans were, for the most part, skeptics. There are recordings of his death and his body’s disappearance are recorded, but any records of Jesus’ miracles would have been considered “Christian writing”, so probably wouldn’t have been included with their other documents. Most of this is a speculative comment, since I have not done deep research into Roman historical documents. Have you found that there are no records on miracles?
Resurrection from the grave is also historically impossible, since crucifixion "victims" were not interred at all, but rather left to rot.
It was the Jewish custom to bury the dead, not the Roman. This is documented in John 19:38 and also by Josephus, the Roman historian.
There is actually more historic and scientific evidence that Jesus was NOT the person that was described in the bible, but rather some Che Guevara of Antiquity...
I would certainly like to see your sources for such evidence. Please, tell me how you came to that conclusion.
So I would like to know what is this scientific evidence that proves al non-christians wrong...
I would be happy to examine any evidence against Christianity, as I have investigated the “Tomb of Jesus” claims and the “Da Vinci Code” claims. To date, however, the archaeological, scientific, and historical evidence has supported Biblical claims to the point that the British Museum (one of the most traditionally atheistic establishments in the world) actually displays Bible verses with their exhibits (click here to check it out).
Kind regards,
Patrick,
Belgium
PS: For the record, I am not an atheist, but an Odinist that is tired of seeing European people and their American cousins deny the faith of their ancestors, for a "peaceful" faith that was forced upon their ancestors with huge amounts of violence ( Charlemagne's persecutions of the "pagans", the Danish genocide, ...)
That is very interesting, Patrick! I would dearly enjoy hearing more about your belief in Odinism. I wasn't aware that the worship of the Norse Pantheon was still practiced. Do you feel that there is more evidence of their existence than that of Jesus?
~Jeff
"Why would it be better to invest myself in a set of beliefs than to follow my own internal motivation?" ~Mark
"We as humans derive our values and personal motivations from adverse sources. Some of us choose to invest our faith in a set of beliefs, while others prefer a psychologically egoistic paradigm.
What we gain from our experiences and the knowledge that is socially imparted to us, is a perceived conception of reality. This differs for every person and is fundamental to any legitimate social theory. From this perception, we can reasonably decipher our personal values and beliefs. This exists on a purely individualistic basis.
So we are presented with a choice: to believe in God or not. The answer to this question can be influenced by many people and ideas. Depending upon the frame of reference, it will be perceived as correct by some and wrong by others. Ultimately the decision becomes self evident. We invest ourselves in an externally derived set of beliefs, or our internally derived ones.
So what kind of calculus is involved in that decision?I'll tell you mine at the moment: We are, at our very core, rational beings. We would not be capable of any abstract thought if that were not the case. I feel that it is more rational and pragmatic to approach life in the context of self interest [happiness], justice, benevolence and public utility. We as individuals can be internally motivated to practice these values, completely independent of other ideological influences. Investing faith blindly in something as exigent as your approach to life seems unreasonable. So I can't see the value in investing myself in a set of beliefs that are fundamentally dogmatic.
My question is, why would it be better to invest myself in a set of beliefs?"
~Mark
Thank you so much for your question. I really appreciate your thought process, and I’m glad you are searching for your own answers.
I agree that we are created with the ability to reason. We are also created with emotions and complex psychological processes that have nothing to do with logic. We are also influenced, as you said, by an entire set of external influences that are different for each person. Hence, based on life experience, emotional reactions, and psychological predispositions, individuals can use logic to come to different conclusions.
One problem with trying to use an internally derived set of values is that there is essentially no standard of right and wrong. You as an individual may have certain morals, but what do you base them on? Do you go by what feels good? What about someone who feels good when he/she molests a child or hurts another person? Does that make it right for them?
Another thing to consider is that self-interest (personal happiness) can conflict with justice, benevolence or public utility. What’s best for the public may be to throw yourself on a bomb in order to protect 50 other people…but that’s certainly not best for personal comfort and enjoyment. Also, some think justice involves vengeance, but do they take benevolence into account?
I think we had a very clear example this past Monday of what can happen when an individual’s personal value system leads him to chaos and destruction. This young man who killed 32 people at Virginia Tech apparently believed in what he was doing and felt he was carrying out justice against a society that had wronged him.
Nobody in their right mind would commend him for following his heart and doing what he felt he needed to do. On the other hand, how can anyone say that truth is relative and yet blame this man for what he did? Nobody can say that everyone has a right to create their own morals, then complain when somebody’s morals are “bad” or “incorrect” or in disagreement with somebody else’s. If there is no standard, there is no standard. Period.
I believe that God imparts a set of standards for good reason. It is not a bunch of rules inflicted because He is a party-pooper and wants us to be uptight and miserable. We are created in His image, and something within us longs for what is right. That is why most humans do feel good and right when they are doing what aligns with God’s will.
If you’ll allow me to indulge in a little personal history, I’ll tell you why I believe that God simply wants the best for us and from us when He asks certain standards of us. I grew up in the church and always tried to do what I was told. It was mostly a matter of wanting to stay out of trouble and to be commended by my elders. I believed in God, but I thought of Him more as a domineering father of some kind—a “big brother” in the sky who was watching everything and just waiting to critique people and be disappointed. When I got to college, I was the stereotype of someone who got away from mommy and daddy for the first time and decided to do all the things I was never allowed to do. I was doing whatever I wanted, whenever I felt like it. I was in control and “having fun.” Funny thing was, I was miserable. I was hurting my body and damaging my heart. I came to realize that God’s “rules” that I was running from were guidelines that would keep me safe from myself and actually give me the freedom to be truly happy.
More importantly, I finally came to see that God is not about rules. I fully gave my heart to Jesus when I figured out that He wanted to love me and be involved in my life. He was chasing me because He wanted me as a beloved daughter, not an obedient robot. Once I put my trust in Him, I became more free to discover who I am—not less free, not bound to a set of unattainable standards, not brainwashed. I’ve heard someone compare this relationship to rock climbing: you need to be tied to a support system if you want to be the most free to explore and climb around. You are timid and limited if you are on your own, because you could slip and fall and die so easily. But tethered to the Rock, you are secure and free because you have something to fall back on. You have limits for your own safety and wellbeing.
I’m sorry this became longer than I intended. I hope this has been helpful in answering your question. Above all else, I want you to know that for me it has nothing to do with a set of beliefs or rules. Yes, I do find life to be more fulfilling and joyful within God’s standards. But what it comes down to is the fact that the God of the universe is pursuing a relationship with me; and with YOU. Did you know that He treasures your heart and wants to love you? That is why He sent Jesus to die for you. He already paid the way for you by dying on the cross, and all you have to do is believe in Him and ask Him to be your savior too. I will include the link to our website that will walk you through it if you want to make this decision. http://www.everystudent.com/features/gettingconnected.html
I will be praying for you as you are thinking about and processing these things. Please feel free to write back if you’d like to talk more about this or any other topic. May God bless you as you seek Truth!
Your friend,
Karen
P.S. I wanted to include this excerpt from C.S. Lewis that my husband found. I read it after I wrote the above email, so I would use my own words instead of trying to adapt someone else’s thoughts. I thought it might be of interest to you.
“'Can’t you lead a good life without believing in Christianity?' This is the question on which I have been asked to write, and straight away, before I begin trying to answer it, I have a comment to make. The question sounds as if it were asked by a person who said to himself, ‘ I don’t care whether Christianity is in fact true or not. I’m not interested in finding out whether the real universe is more like what the Christians say than what the Materialists say. All I’m interested in is leading a good life. I’m going to choose beliefs not because I think them true but because I find them helpful.’ Now frankly, I find it hard to sympathize with this state of mind. One of the things that distinguishes man from the other animals is that he wants to know things, wants to find out what reality is like, simply for the sake of knowing. When that desire is completely quenched in anyone I think he has become something less than human. As a matter of fact, I don’t believe any of you have really lost that desire. More probably, foolish preachers, by always telling you how much Christianity will help you and how good it is for society, have actually led you to forget that Christianity is not a patent medicine. Christianity claims to give an account of facts—to tell you what the real universe is like. Its account of the universe may be true, or it may not, and once the question is really before you, then your natural inquisitiveness must make you want to know the answer. If Christianity is untrue, then no honest man will want to believe it, however helpful it might be: if it is true, every honest man will want to believe it, even if it gives him no help at all.”
What we gain from our experiences and the knowledge that is socially imparted to us, is a perceived conception of reality. This differs for every person and is fundamental to any legitimate social theory. From this perception, we can reasonably decipher our personal values and beliefs. This exists on a purely individualistic basis.
So we are presented with a choice: to believe in God or not. The answer to this question can be influenced by many people and ideas. Depending upon the frame of reference, it will be perceived as correct by some and wrong by others. Ultimately the decision becomes self evident. We invest ourselves in an externally derived set of beliefs, or our internally derived ones.
So what kind of calculus is involved in that decision?I'll tell you mine at the moment: We are, at our very core, rational beings. We would not be capable of any abstract thought if that were not the case. I feel that it is more rational and pragmatic to approach life in the context of self interest [happiness], justice, benevolence and public utility. We as individuals can be internally motivated to practice these values, completely independent of other ideological influences. Investing faith blindly in something as exigent as your approach to life seems unreasonable. So I can't see the value in investing myself in a set of beliefs that are fundamentally dogmatic.
My question is, why would it be better to invest myself in a set of beliefs?"
~Mark
Thank you so much for your question. I really appreciate your thought process, and I’m glad you are searching for your own answers.
I agree that we are created with the ability to reason. We are also created with emotions and complex psychological processes that have nothing to do with logic. We are also influenced, as you said, by an entire set of external influences that are different for each person. Hence, based on life experience, emotional reactions, and psychological predispositions, individuals can use logic to come to different conclusions.
One problem with trying to use an internally derived set of values is that there is essentially no standard of right and wrong. You as an individual may have certain morals, but what do you base them on? Do you go by what feels good? What about someone who feels good when he/she molests a child or hurts another person? Does that make it right for them?
Another thing to consider is that self-interest (personal happiness) can conflict with justice, benevolence or public utility. What’s best for the public may be to throw yourself on a bomb in order to protect 50 other people…but that’s certainly not best for personal comfort and enjoyment. Also, some think justice involves vengeance, but do they take benevolence into account?
I think we had a very clear example this past Monday of what can happen when an individual’s personal value system leads him to chaos and destruction. This young man who killed 32 people at Virginia Tech apparently believed in what he was doing and felt he was carrying out justice against a society that had wronged him.
Nobody in their right mind would commend him for following his heart and doing what he felt he needed to do. On the other hand, how can anyone say that truth is relative and yet blame this man for what he did? Nobody can say that everyone has a right to create their own morals, then complain when somebody’s morals are “bad” or “incorrect” or in disagreement with somebody else’s. If there is no standard, there is no standard. Period.
I believe that God imparts a set of standards for good reason. It is not a bunch of rules inflicted because He is a party-pooper and wants us to be uptight and miserable. We are created in His image, and something within us longs for what is right. That is why most humans do feel good and right when they are doing what aligns with God’s will.
If you’ll allow me to indulge in a little personal history, I’ll tell you why I believe that God simply wants the best for us and from us when He asks certain standards of us. I grew up in the church and always tried to do what I was told. It was mostly a matter of wanting to stay out of trouble and to be commended by my elders. I believed in God, but I thought of Him more as a domineering father of some kind—a “big brother” in the sky who was watching everything and just waiting to critique people and be disappointed. When I got to college, I was the stereotype of someone who got away from mommy and daddy for the first time and decided to do all the things I was never allowed to do. I was doing whatever I wanted, whenever I felt like it. I was in control and “having fun.” Funny thing was, I was miserable. I was hurting my body and damaging my heart. I came to realize that God’s “rules” that I was running from were guidelines that would keep me safe from myself and actually give me the freedom to be truly happy.
More importantly, I finally came to see that God is not about rules. I fully gave my heart to Jesus when I figured out that He wanted to love me and be involved in my life. He was chasing me because He wanted me as a beloved daughter, not an obedient robot. Once I put my trust in Him, I became more free to discover who I am—not less free, not bound to a set of unattainable standards, not brainwashed. I’ve heard someone compare this relationship to rock climbing: you need to be tied to a support system if you want to be the most free to explore and climb around. You are timid and limited if you are on your own, because you could slip and fall and die so easily. But tethered to the Rock, you are secure and free because you have something to fall back on. You have limits for your own safety and wellbeing.
I’m sorry this became longer than I intended. I hope this has been helpful in answering your question. Above all else, I want you to know that for me it has nothing to do with a set of beliefs or rules. Yes, I do find life to be more fulfilling and joyful within God’s standards. But what it comes down to is the fact that the God of the universe is pursuing a relationship with me; and with YOU. Did you know that He treasures your heart and wants to love you? That is why He sent Jesus to die for you. He already paid the way for you by dying on the cross, and all you have to do is believe in Him and ask Him to be your savior too. I will include the link to our website that will walk you through it if you want to make this decision. http://www.everystudent.com/features/gettingconnected.html
I will be praying for you as you are thinking about and processing these things. Please feel free to write back if you’d like to talk more about this or any other topic. May God bless you as you seek Truth!
Your friend,
Karen
P.S. I wanted to include this excerpt from C.S. Lewis that my husband found. I read it after I wrote the above email, so I would use my own words instead of trying to adapt someone else’s thoughts. I thought it might be of interest to you.
“'Can’t you lead a good life without believing in Christianity?' This is the question on which I have been asked to write, and straight away, before I begin trying to answer it, I have a comment to make. The question sounds as if it were asked by a person who said to himself, ‘ I don’t care whether Christianity is in fact true or not. I’m not interested in finding out whether the real universe is more like what the Christians say than what the Materialists say. All I’m interested in is leading a good life. I’m going to choose beliefs not because I think them true but because I find them helpful.’ Now frankly, I find it hard to sympathize with this state of mind. One of the things that distinguishes man from the other animals is that he wants to know things, wants to find out what reality is like, simply for the sake of knowing. When that desire is completely quenched in anyone I think he has become something less than human. As a matter of fact, I don’t believe any of you have really lost that desire. More probably, foolish preachers, by always telling you how much Christianity will help you and how good it is for society, have actually led you to forget that Christianity is not a patent medicine. Christianity claims to give an account of facts—to tell you what the real universe is like. Its account of the universe may be true, or it may not, and once the question is really before you, then your natural inquisitiveness must make you want to know the answer. If Christianity is untrue, then no honest man will want to believe it, however helpful it might be: if it is true, every honest man will want to believe it, even if it gives him no help at all.”
Monday, April 9, 2007
"Does Galatians 6 (2 & 5) contradict itself?" ~Catie
Without diving into any commentaries, my understanding of these two verses is found in the verses surrounding them. The first (“Gal 6:2 Help carry one another's burdens”) refers to Christian brothers helping each other by holding one another accountable. The second (“Gal 6:5 For each of you have to carry your own load.”) talks of examining or judging your own work rather than comparing it to that of others. In other words, rather than saying "help each other out, but it's every man for himself" it's actually saying, "help your brothers, but don't compare yourself to them and don't overburden others while you refuse to pull your own weight." What do you think? Do you agree, given the context?
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